Question about catholic faith


#1

Exodus 20:1-15 ESV

And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, ...

If the bible clearly mention about idols, why do we have statues like mother mary and other saints ? Sorry if my question offend some..


#2

[quote="Macjoe83, post:1, topic:305707"]
Exodus 20:1-15 ESV

And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, ...

If the bible clearly mention about idols, why do we have statues like mother mary and other saints ? Sorry if my question offend some..

[/quote]

Your question is not offensive. You are correct that idols are forbidden. Statues are only idols if one worships them. Catholics neither worship statues nor the people they represent, other than Christ himself. Remember, even the Arc of the Covenant was adorned with golden cherubim. This is not a prohibition against art, especially sacred art. It is a prohibition against worshiping anyone or anything other than the one, true God.

This is a common accusation brought against Catholics, but it is out of ignorance, not reality.

God bless.

Steve


#3

Thanks Steve, but why do I see that some kneel down to mother mary and pray. I thought this was act of worship. Or was it an act of respect ? God bless u too


#4

[quote="Macjoe83, post:3, topic:305707"]
Thanks Steve, but why do I see that some kneel down to mother mary and pray. I thought this was act of worship. Or was it an act of respect ? God bless u too

[/quote]

It is very understandable that a non-Catholic observing a Catholic on his knees in prayer before a statue of Mary (or any saint, for that matter) might very well get the impression that the statue, or the one being represented, is being worshipped. Kneeling is the physical posture preferred by Catholics when in deep prayer. But this leads us to something that is very important for you to understand. Why do we pray to saints?

The Catholic Church has a doctrine called the "communion of saints". What this means is that we are not separated from those who have died because we are all one body in Christ (the "Mystical Body of Christ"). Those who have gone before us are not dead, but alive in heaven. God is not the God of the dead but of the living. So we ask the saints in heaven to pray for us just as I might ask you to pray for me. We might very well do this on our knees. So there are different types of prayer. One is done in adoration of God. The other is to communicate with the saints in heaven to ask for their intercession. Again, this is no different than me asking for your prayers on my behalf (intercession).

Hope that helps.


#5

[quote="Macjoe83, post:1, topic:305707"]
Exodus 20:1-15 ESV

And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, ...

If the bible clearly mention about idols, why do we have statues like mother mary and other saints ? Sorry if my question offend some..

[/quote]

Now continue to read on in the very same book of Exodus a few chapters later!
**
Exodus 25: 10** Have them make an ark of acacia wood—two and a half cubits long, a cubit and a half wide, and a cubit and a half high.11*Overlay*it with pure gold, both inside and out, and make a gold molding around it.12*Cast four gold rings for it and fasten them to its four feet, with two rings*on one side and two rings on the other.13*Then make poles of acacia wood and overlay them with gold.14*Insert the poles*into the rings on the sides of the ark to carry it.15*The poles are to remain in the rings of this ark; they are not to be removed.*16*Then put in the ark the tablets of the covenant law,which I will give you.
17
“Make an atonement cover*of pure gold—two and a half cubits long and a cubit and a half wide.*18*And make two cherubim*out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover.*19*Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends.*20*The cherubim*are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing*the cover with them. The cherubim are to face each other, looking toward the cover.*21*Place the cover on top of the ark*and put in the ark the tablets of the covenant law*that I will give you.*22*There, above the cover between the two cherubim*that are over the ark of the covenant law, I will meet*with you and give you all my commands for the Israelites.

Was God sending mixed signals, or are you unaware of the Catholic Church teaching regarding images?

First of all, do you worship a statue or think other Catholics are worshiping statues!

Catholics do NOT worship creations, worship is due to God Alone!

Let's take that interpretation of the graven image to it's logical conclusion. If we are to have no images in general, that includes earthly ones too, then tear up all the picture you have ever taken of freinds and family, get rid of all "Jesus fish", throw away all crosses, any doves that represent the Holy Spirit, they have to go too, and any picture bible, or illustrations you may use to teach children, they must go as well!


#6

[quote="Macjoe83, post:3, topic:305707"]
Thanks Steve, but why do I see that some kneel down to mother mary and pray. I thought this was act of worship. Or was it an act of respect ? God bless u too

[/quote]

Question! When you pray before going to bed do you kneel in front of your bed?

Any one see that might think you are worshiping your bed :D


#7

[quote="JerryZ, post:6, topic:305707"]
Question! When you pray before going to bed do you kneel in front of your bed?

Any one see that might think you are worshiping your bed :D

[/quote]

...or the cross on the wall behind your bed. ;)


#8

Or football. ;)

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQixInwVjlIYjgvifLR9uDCg9jb3xxoV6NZWDLcpkCVcRRsxg3z

Making assumptions is never a good thing.

I am glad the OP asked.


#9

[quote="SteveVH, post:4, topic:305707"]
It is very understandable that a non-Catholic observing a Catholic on his knees in prayer before a statue of Mary (or any saint, for that matter) might very well get the impression that the statue, or the one being represented, is being worshipped. Kneeling is the physical posture preferred by Catholics when in deep prayer. But this leads us to something that is very important for you to understand. Why do we pray to saints?

The Catholic Church has a doctrine called the "communion of saints". What this means is that we are not separated from those who have died because we are all one body in Christ (the "Mystical Body of Christ"). Those who have gone before us are not dead, but alive in heaven. God is not the God of the dead but of the living. So we ask the saints in heaven to pray for us just as I might ask you to pray for me. We might very well do this on our knees. So there are different types of prayer. One is done in adoration of God. The other is to communicate with the saints in heaven to ask for their intercession. Again, this is no different than me asking for your prayers on my behalf (intercession).

Hope that helps.

[/quote]

Perfectly stated. To add, it is no different than if you and I were kneeling together in prayer. We are kneeling to pray with the saints.


#10

[quote="Ophelia23, post:9, topic:305707"]
Perfectly stated. To add, it is no different than if you and I were kneeling together in prayer. We are kneeling to pray with the saints.

[/quote]

Absolutely, especially at Mass. Heaven touches earth and we are joined with those in heaven in adoring our Lord. :thumbsup:


#11

[quote="Macjoe83, post:3, topic:305707"]
Thanks Steve, but why do I see that some kneel down to mother mary and pray. I thought this was act of worship. Or was it an act of respect ? God bless u too

[/quote]

Kneeling, in and of itself is not worship--it's showing respect. Those who have a monarch ruling them bow and kneel to them, as well, but they are not offering them adoration, only respect to their high office.

For Catholics, as for the Hebrews, worship entails offering a sacrifice. When we read the OT we see example after example of God requesting altars be built and sacrifices offered when making covenants with his people.

Christ is our New Covenant who offered his one sacrifice for us on the cross. Catholics re-present that one offering at every Mass in worship of God. That, for us, is worship, not merely saying prayers. Prayers, especially petitionary prayers are only requests--they are not worship. When we pray to Mary or another saint we are asking for their prayers, not worshiping them, even if we do it on our knees out of respect and veneration for them.

Veneration of the saints is called dulia--it's a form of respect. Mary is offered hyperdulia because of her fiat--her acceptance of God's will that she conceive Christ and be his mother. She was his mother all through her life, his first disciple, and the only one besides John to stand beneath his cross when all the others had fled. For this, and her many virtues, we give her more honor than any other saint, but we only worship God.


#12

[quote="Macjoe83, post:1, topic:305707"]
Exodus 20:1-15 ESV

And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, ...

If the bible clearly mention about idols, why do we have statues like mother mary and other saints ? Sorry if my question offend some..

[/quote]

Welcome to CAF. :)

As a non-Catholic, my encouragement to you would be this:

Don't believe what others say Catholics do regarding statues and what Orthodox do regarding icons. Believe instead what Catholics and Orthodox tell you about their practices, faith, and beliefs.

I strongly believe that Catholics do not worship statues or the images they represent. They worship the one true God, in triune unity, and no others. Their prayers to the saints in Heaven for intercession with God are no different than our prayers to each other for intercession, asking others to pray for us or loved ones.

Just my 2 cents.


#13

[quote="twopekinguys, post:8, topic:305707"]
Or football. ;)

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQixInwVjlIYjgvifLR9uDCg9jb3xxoV6NZWDLcpkCVcRRsxg3z

Making assumptions is never a good thing.

I am glad the OP asked.

[/quote]

:rotfl:

SteveVH, that's a good job you've done in explaining the questions asked about statues and prayers. :thumbsup:


#14

[quote="Reuben_J, post:13, topic:305707"]

SteveVH, that's a good job you've done in explaining the questions asked about statues and prayers. :thumbsup:

[/quote]

Thanks. :o


#15

:)

=Macjoe83;10042177]Exodus 20:1-15 ESV

And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, ...

If the bible clearly mention about idols, why do we have statues like mother mary and other saints ? Sorry if my question offend some..

A Very GOOD question, BUT not a new one.

There is dear friend only One INFALLIBLE RULE for right understanding of the Bible.

NEVER-EVER; CAN, MAY OR DOES, ONE PART OF THE BIBLE MAKE VOID, INVALIDATE OR OVERRIDE ANOTHER TEACHING OR PASSAGE

:D

Were this even the slighest possibility [it's not:)] the bible would be wortless to teach or learn ones Faith.

HERE WE FIND GOD HIMSELF COMMANDING MOSES TO DO WHAT YOU FEEL HE PROHIBITS. HOW CAN THIS BE?

Exod.25: 18, 20 And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. The cherubim [ANGELS] shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be

Num.21: 8-9 And the LORD said to Moses, "Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live." So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live.

The answer friend lies is the REASON, the purpose for the statues, stained glass ect.

IF, as do the images in the Catholic Faith WORK to LEAD us towards God; then, like the images commanded of Moses; they are good and acceptable to God.

Are they "absolutely necessary"? Of course NOT! But they are termed "sacramentals", because, while they are not a sourse of grace themselves, THEY ARE things that DO lead us towars God's grace. Amen!:thumbsup:

ANY OBJECT designed to compete with God; is by God's defination an "IDOL" to be avoided.

I pray this answers you're question?

God Bless,
pat/PJM


#16

Thanks to all who took time in explaining.


#17

[quote="Macjoe83, post:16, topic:305707"]
Thanks to all who took time in explaining.

[/quote]

That is what we are here for.

Did we answer it adequately? We don't want you to have any lingering doubts.


#18

[quote="twopekinguys, post:17, topic:305707"]
That is what we are here for.

Did we answer it adequately? We don't want you to have any lingering doubts.

[/quote]

Yup


#19

[quote="Macjoe83, post:18, topic:305707"]
Yup

[/quote]

:thumbsup:


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