Question About Church Structure


#1

Hi everyone,
I was watching a news program last night in which Stone Phillips was investigating miracles in the Church. I have two questions, based on what I watched:

  1. What criteria/process does the Church use to investigate claims of miracles?

  2. What is the Eastern Catholic Church? Is it in line with the Vatican?

There was a married priest on the program who was a priest in the Eastern Catholic Church. I’ve never heard of this branch of Catholicism before.

Any help anyone can give me would be appreciated. Thanks!

Shalom Ha Moshiach!


#2

[quote=Jew_Man_73]Hi everyone,
I was watching a news program last night in which Stone Phillips was investigating miracles in the Church. I have two questions, based on what I watched:

  1. What criteria/process does the Church use to investigate claims of miracles?

  2. What is the Eastern Catholic Church? Is it in line with Vatican?

There was a married priest on the program who was a priest in the Eastern Catholic Church. I’ve never heard of this branch of Catholicism before.

Any help anyone can give me would be appreciated. Thanks!

Shalom Ha Moshiach!
[/quote]

I watched that program too last night and thought they did a pretty decent job of it, better than I had expected from the mainstream media.

They talked about how the Catholic Church tries to determine whether or not a particular even was miraculous, but it depends if you are talking about apparitions or healings. There were 4 criteria for healings and I think they were:

  1. must have been instantaneous
  2. must have been complete
  3. must be permanent
  4. cannot be explained by medicine or science.
    That is about all that I remember off the top of my head. I would recommend a book that came out not long ago:

The Miracle Detective by Randall Sullivan, he was a skeptic writer for Rolling Stone magazine that went to Mejugoria (spelling ?) to investigate and had a conversion himself. In his book he not only explains Mejugoria and his private conversion but he also goes into detail about how the Catholic Church investigates such things…that was actually the original intent of the book before he became caught up in it all.

The Catholic Church was split in two when the Roman Empire split between east and west, also known as the Great Schism, in the year 1054. They are Catholic because they can still trace their origins back to the apostles, but they are not in full communion with Rome because they dont view the Bishop of Rome as the head of the Church. Other than that one (major) doctrinal difference they teach the same things as the Roman Church and because they are apostolic they have valid sacraments. Which means that if you found yourself in a situation where you needed to receive Communion or any other sacrament and there was no way for you to find a Roman Catholic priest you could actually receive the sacraments from an Eastern Catholic Church.

Likewise they are permitted to receive our sacraments as long as they have permission from their Bishop.


#3

Hi,

I’ll give your questions a stab.

As for investigation of miracles, I can’t give an exact blow by blow, but as I understand it, if a local authority (typically the parish priest) determines that there is something worthy of investigation, it gets moved to the diocese to look into. They have various scientific investigators, both from within and outside the church. The standard for declaring something a miracle by the church is extremely strenuous.

As for the Eastern Church, there is both the Eastern Church which is in accord with Rome and the Papacy and there is the Orthodox Church which is not in alignment with the Pope.

It is my understanding that both allow for married clergy, although I believe that they must be married before being ordained.

They both have the same sacraments as the Latin Rite Catholics (Roman Catholic) and are considered part of the Catholic Church.

CARose


#4

[quote=CARose]Hi,

I’ll give your questions a stab.

As for investigation of miracles, I can’t give an exact blow by blow, but as I understand it, if a local authority (typically the parish priest) determines that there is something worthy of investigation, it gets moved to the diocese to look into. They have various scientific investigators, both from within and outside the church. The standard for declaring something a miracle by the church is extremely strenuous.

As for the Eastern Church, there is both the Eastern Church which is in accord with Rome and the Papacy and there is the Orthodox Church which is not in alignment with the Pope.

It is my understanding that both allow for married clergy, although I believe that they must be married before being ordained.

They both have the same sacraments as the Latin Rite Catholics (Roman Catholic) and are considered part of the Catholic Church.

CARose
[/quote]

You may want to clarify that the Orthodox are not Catholic. Schismatics cannot, by their very nature, be part of the Catholic Church. They have, however, maintained valid holy orders.

catholic.com/library/Eastern_Orthodoxy.asp

The Eastern Rite Catholics are Catholic in every sense of the word and submit to the authority of the Pope.


#5

[quote=Jew_Man_73]Hi everyone,
I was watching a news program last night in which Stone Phillips was investigating miracles in the Church. I have two questions, based on what I watched:

  1. What criteria/process does the Church use to investigate claims of miracles?

  2. What is the Eastern Catholic Church? Is it in line with the Vatican?

There was a married priest on the program who was a priest in the Eastern Catholic Church. I’ve never heard of this branch of Catholicism before.

Any help anyone can give me would be appreciated. Thanks!

Shalom Ha Moshiach!
[/quote]

There are several Eastern Catholic rites. They include the Alexandrian Rite, the Antiochene Rite, the Chaldean Rite, the Armenian Rite, and the Byzantine Rite. What you normal see and think of as the Catholic Church is the Latin Rite, which is the rite of the western Catholics.

They are all in communion with eachother and are all under the pope. Any Catholic can go to any other rite if they want and recieve the sacraments. Even though I am of the Latin rite, I can go to the Byzantine rite churches or the Antiochene rite churches, or any other. There are not a whole lot of Eastern Rite churches in the US. There are some Byzantine churches and some Maronite churches, which are of the Antiochene rite.

The main difference between the different rites is the Liturgy they use. The Latin Church has its own Liturgy. The Byzantine rite uses the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. The Antiochene Rite uses the Liturgy of St. James. The Armenian rite uses the Liturgy of St. Basil. The Alexandrian uses the Liturgy of St. Mark. All these Liturgies follow the same order and the same general idea, but they are a little different. They are all equally Catholic and valid.


#6

[quote=Jew_Man_73]1. What criteria/process does the Church use to investigate claims of miracles?

  1. What is the Eastern Catholic Church? Is it in line with the Vatican?
    [/quote]

Hi Jew_Man_73!

Here’s a lot of info on miracles from the old Catholic Encyclopedia (it’s much more voluminous than any newer versions…and it’s all online!).

newadvent.org/cathen/10338a.htm

And there are a quite a few Eastern Catholic Churches. They have there own traditional liturgies. Some of them have married priests. They are quite fully Catholic. The celibate priesthood is a discipline of the Latin (Roman) Rite of the Catholic Church (a very well-founded and reasonable one). You’ll have to scroll down to the Eastern Catholic Church section of the article to find the pertinent information.

newadvent.org/cathen/05230a.htm

I hope you find everything you’re looking for. Shalom, brother!

jb


#7

There are actually several Easter Catholics on this forum. Hesychios and Byzcath are a couple of them.


#8

[quote=martino]I watched that program too last night and thought they did a pretty decent job of it, better than I had expected from the mainstream media.

They talked about how the Catholic Church tries to determine whether or not a particular even was miraculous, but it depends if you are talking about apparitions or healings. There were 4 criteria for healings and I think they were:

  1. must have been instantaneous
  2. must have been complete
  3. must be permanent
  4. cannot be explained by medicine or science.
    That is about all that I remember off the top of my head. I would recommend a book that came out not long ago:

The Miracle Detective by Randall Sullivan, he was a skeptic writer for Rolling Stone magazine that went to Mejugoria (spelling ?) to investigate and had a conversion himself. In his book he not only explains Mejugoria and his private conversion but he also goes into detail about how the Catholic Church investigates such things…that was actually the original intent of the book before he became caught up in it all.

The Catholic Church was split in two when the Roman Empire split between east and west, also known as the Great Schism, in the year 1054. They are Catholic because they can still trace their origins back to the apostles, but they are not in full communion with Rome because they dont view the Bishop of Rome as the head of the Church. Other than that one (major) doctrinal difference they teach the same things as the Roman Church and because they are apostolic they have valid sacraments. Which means that if you found yourself in a situation where you needed to receive Communion or any other sacrament and there was no way for you to find a Roman Catholic priest you could actually receive the sacraments from an Eastern Catholic Church.

Likewise they are permitted to receive our sacraments as long as they have permission from their Bishop.
[/quote]

I realize that i grossly over simplified my explanation of Eastern Catholics and failed to make the distinction between the authentic Eastern Catholic Churches and the schismatic Eastern Churches.

The new advent link above is very informative! sorry if i confused anyone!


#9

[quote=CARose]Hi,

I’ll give your questions a stab.

As for investigation of miracles, I can’t give an exact blow by blow, but as I understand it, if a local authority (typically the parish priest) determines that there is something worthy of investigation, it gets moved to the diocese to look into. They have various scientific investigators, both from within and outside the church. The standard for declaring something a miracle by the church is extremely strenuous.

As for the Eastern Church, there is both the Eastern Church which is in accord with Rome and the Papacy and there is the Orthodox Church which is not in alignment with the Pope.

It is my understanding that both allow for married clergy, although I believe that they must be married before being ordained.

They both have the same sacraments as the Latin Rite Catholics (Roman Catholic) and are considered part of the Catholic Church.

CARose
[/quote]

So is the Eastern Catholic Church another name for the Eastern Orthodox?


#10

[quote=DeFide]You may want to clarify that the Orthodox are not Catholic. Schismatics cannot, by their very nature, be part of the Catholic Church. They have, however, maintained valid holy orders.

catholic.com/library/Eastern_Orthodoxy.asp

The Eastern Rite Catholics are Catholic in every sense of the word and submit to the authority of the Pope.
[/quote]

Thank you. So is that the only difference between the two? And I am a little confused. Why is it ok for some Catholic priests to marry, but not others?


#11

[quote=jimmy]There are several Eastern Catholic rites. They include the Alexandrian Rite, the Antiochene Rite, the Chaldean Rite, the Armenian Rite, and the Byzantine Rite. What you normal see and think of as the Catholic Church is the Latin Rite, which is the rite of the western Catholics.

They are all in communion with eachother and are all under the pope. Any Catholic can go to any other rite if they want and recieve the sacraments. Even though I am of the Latin rite, I can go to the Byzantine rite churches or the Antiochene rite churches, or any other. There are not a whole lot of Eastern Rite churches in the US. There are some Byzantine churches and some Maronite churches, which are of the Antiochene rite.

The main difference between the different rites is the Liturgy they use. The Latin Church has its own Liturgy. The Byzantine rite uses the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. The Antiochene Rite uses the Liturgy of St. James. The Armenian rite uses the Liturgy of St. Basil. The Alexandrian uses the Liturgy of St. Mark. All these Liturgies follow the same order and the same general idea, but they are a little different. They are all equally Catholic and valid.
[/quote]

Wow, I need to research this, because I have no idea what any of this is. Thank you for your post.


#12

[quote=jordan]Hi Jew_Man_73!

Here’s a lot of info on miracles from the old Catholic Encyclopedia (it’s much more voluminous than any newer versions…and it’s all online!).

newadvent.org/cathen/10338a.htm

And there are a quite a few Eastern Catholic Churches. They have there own traditional liturgies. Some of them have married priests. They are quite fully Catholic. The celibate priesthood is a discipline of the Latin (Roman) Rite of the Catholic Church (a very well-founded and reasonable one). You’ll have to scroll down to the Eastern Catholic Church section of the article to find the pertinent information.

newadvent.org/cathen/05230a.htm

I hope you find everything you’re looking for. Shalom, brother!

jb
[/quote]

Thanks for the links. I hope it explains the different celibacy rules, because I’m confused. Shalom!


#13

[quote=jimmy]There are actually several Easter Catholics on this forum. Hesychios and Byzcath are a couple of them.
[/quote]

Cool, thanks! I hope they post here.


#14

[quote=Jew_Man_73]So is the Eastern Catholic Church another name for the Eastern Orthodox?
[/quote]

No, the Eastern Catholics are Catholic, not Eastern Orthodox. They are in communion with the pope.


#15

[quote=jimmy]No, the Eastern Catholics are Catholic, not Eastern Orthodox. They are in communion with the pope.
[/quote]

Thanks. :slight_smile:


#16

[quote=Jew_Man_73]Thank you. …] Why is it ok for some Catholic priests to marry, but not others?
[/quote]

This should explain it:
catholic.com/library/celibacy_and_the_priesthood.asp
:wave:


#17

[quote=DeFide]This should explain it:
catholic.com/library/celibacy_and_the_priesthood.asp
:wave:
[/quote]

Thank you. I’ll read this today. :slight_smile:


#18

[quote=Jew_Man_73]2. What is the Eastern Catholic Church? Is it in line with the Vatican?

There was a married priest on the program who was a priest in the Eastern Catholic Church. I’ve never heard of this branch of Catholicism before.
[/quote]

The Catholic Church (captial ‘C’) is composed of 6 Rites and 22 churches (little ‘c’): [list]*] Alexandrean Rite

  • Coptic Catholic church
  • Ethiopian (& Eritrean) Catholic church

*] Antiochene Rite

  • Syriac Catholic church
  • Syro-Malabarese Catholic church
  • Syro-Malankarese Catholic church

*] Armenian Rite

  • Armenian Catholic church

*] Byzantine Rite

  • Albanian Catholic church
  • Belarusan Catholic church
  • Bulgarian Catholic church
  • Croatian Catholic church
  • Georgian Catholic church
  • Greek Catholic church
  • Hungarian Catholic church
  • Italo-Greco-Albanian Catholic church
  • Melkite Catholic church
  • Russian Catholic church
  • Romanian Catholic church
  • Ruthenian Catholic church
  • Slovakian Catholic church
  • Ukrainian Catholic church

*] Latin Rite

  • Roman Catholic church

*] Maronite Rite

  • Maronite Catholic church[/list] Of the six Rites in the Catholic Church, the Latin Rite is the only one which practices the discipline of Priestly celibacy.

#19

[quote=Sir Knight]The Catholic Church (captial ‘C’) is composed of 6 Rites and 22 churches (little ‘c’):
[list]
*]Alexandrean Rite

  • Coptic Catholic church
  • Ethiopian (& Eritrean) Catholic church
    *]Antiochene Rite
  • Syriac Catholic church
  • Syro-Malabarese Catholic church
  • Syro-Malankarese Catholic church
    *]Armenian Rite
  • Armenian Catholic church
    *]Byzantine Rite
  • Albanian Catholic church
  • Belarusan Catholic church
  • Bulgarian Catholic church
  • Croatian Catholic church
  • Georgian Catholic church
  • Greek Catholic church
  • Hungarian Catholic church
  • Italo-Greco-Albanian Catholic church
  • Melkite Catholic church
  • Russian Catholic church
  • Romanian Catholic church
  • Ruthenian Catholic church
  • Slovakian Catholic church
  • Ukrainian Catholic church
    *]Latin Rite
  • Roman Catholic church
    *]Maronite Rite
  • Maronite Catholic church
    [/list]Of the six Rites in the Catholic Church, the Latin Rite is the only one which practices the discipline of Priestly celibacy.
    [/quote]

All churches in the Catholic Church practice preistly celibacy. In the Byzantine tradition, no preist can marry, but a married man can become preist. In the Maronite tradition they have the same tradition as the Latin church regarding celibacy. No married man can be a Maronite preist.


#20

[quote=jimmy] … In the Byzantine tradition, no preist can marry, but a married man can become preist.
[/quote]

The end result is still the same – it is possible for a priest to be married.

[quote=jimmy]In the Maronite tradition they have the same tradition as the Latin church regarding celibacy. No married man can be a Maronite preist.
[/quote]

I stand corrected.


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