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Question about Ireland vote on same sex marriage


#1

In light of Ireland's decision to make same sex marriage legal, does that mean that the RCC will be forced to perform same sex wedding ceremonies or can they "opt out" on grounds that it violates Church teaching?

Background:
I am a Protestant who had naively assumed that Ireland, a predominantly Catholic country, would not approve the gay marriage referendum based on Catholic teaching and because the population is overwhelmingly Roman Catholic.

However, perhaps Ireland is more socially liberal or secular than I had originally thought.

In short, I was wondering if the Roman Catholic Church will be forced by this new law to perform same sex weddings against their will.


#2

I don’t know for sure but I would tend to think this would only apply to obtaining a marriage license from the local magistrate or governmental office, county clerk might be the term here in the US.

I doubt if this would force churches to say same-sex wedding ceremonies.


#3

If not initially, I believe the times will soon come when the government will force the Church to perform such atrocities against Her will. It will be up to the individual bishops and bishop conferences in that country to resist to the point of martyrdom…though I hope I am being too dark and pessimistic


#4

No they wont be forced to preform same sex marriages it would be the state that would preform them.


#5

[quote="JediHockey, post:3, topic:396881"]
If not initially, I believe the times will soon come when the government will force the Church to perform such atrocities against Her will. It will be up to the individual bishops and bishop conferences in that country to resist to the point of martyrdom....though I hope I am being too dark and pessimistic

[/quote]

The Catholic Church cannot and never will preform same sex so called 'marriages'. Do you think the Catholic Church could or would ever go against Her own teachings?? I don't. That's like saying it will someday have to preform plural marriages or worse. Get real. The Church can't stop society form gong to pot but She will protect her own to the End of the World. Governments may THINK they can run the Catholic Church but God's still the BOSS. God Bless, Memaw


#6

It will never happen. :dts:


#7

[quote="Tommy999, post:1, topic:396881"]
In light of Ireland's decision to make same sex marriage legal, does that mean that the RCC will be forced to perform same sex wedding ceremonies or can they "opt out" on grounds that it violates Church teaching?

Background:
I am a Protestant who had naively assumed that Ireland, a predominantly Catholic country, would not approve the gay marriage referendum based on Catholic teaching and because the population is overwhelmingly Roman Catholic.

However, perhaps Ireland is more socially liberal or secular than I had originally thought.

In short, I was wondering if the Roman Catholic Church will be forced by this new law to perform same sex weddings against their will.

[/quote]

Of course not! - by that I mean that the Catholic Church would never agree to allow homosexual marriages because that would be to condone active homosexual relations. Read a bit of St. Paul.

And I think a lot to do with the outcome is down to media influence. They are scandalously ignorant.


#8

[quote="friardchips, post:7, topic:396881"]
Of course not!

And I think a lot to do with the outcome is down to media influence.

[/quote]

Not to mention the political parties who wanted a yes vote as well. I am especially annoyed by Taoiseach Enda Kenny who claims to be a Catholic but says he supports same sex marriage. It truly is terrible


#9

[quote="JediHockey, post:3, topic:396881"]
If not initially, I believe the times will soon come when the government will force the Church to perform such atrocities against Her will. It will be up to the individual bishops and bishop conferences in that country to resist to the point of martyrdom....though I hope I am being too dark and pessimistic

[/quote]

Interesting point placing the impetus on "individual bishops" to resist to the point of martyrdom.

I'd like to know, who feels so strongly about it, they themselves can with conviction make the claim that they would resist any governmental interference with Church teachings to the point of martyrdom.

Idealistically I would like to say I would, but in all honesty, I'm not sure I could.

Until I could, I think it very presumptuous to expect someone else, (bishops included) to do it.

What say the room?


#10

That is a good question. I hope the Catholic Church will not be forced to to perform same sex marriages in Ireland.

Is Ireland even that Catholic anymore? I am really disappointed it was such a landslide.


#11

If they are bullied, and the priests who are Catholic remain as Christians, then there will be a lot of martyrs.


#12

I am relieved to hear that the RCC will not be put in a position of being forced to perform same sex weddings in Ireland because that would seem unfair for the Church to go against one of her steadfast teachings.

However, I am not familiar enough to know how far the new law will extend. I was mainly curious since Ireland is predominantly Catholic and presumably there will be homosexual Catholics who might try to push the envelope, so to speak.


#13

This can never happen


#14

imho, the day the Catholic Church performs a same-sex marriage, is when Satan will look like this in Hell: :winter: :snowing:


#15

[quote="friardchips, post:7, topic:396881"]
Of course not! - by that I mean that the Catholic Church would never agree to allow homosexual marriages because that would be to condone active homosexual relations. Read a bit of St. Paul.

And I think a lot to do with the outcome is down to media influence. They are scandalously ignorant.

[/quote]

I don't think there as ignorant as they are scandalous. I think they are doing all this ON PURPOSE to try and destroy the Catholic Church which they will NEVER be able to do. Sad to say, they may destroy some Catholics in the battle. Let's face it, there is a real war going on against the Catholic Church and I think its time us Catholics learn our Faith much better than we seem to know and stand strong with the Catholic Church during these terrible times. Fr. John Hardon S.J said many years ago that America is heading for real trouble and we need to be as faithful to the Church as the Early Martyrs were. Are we really willing to die for our Faith if need be?? Or would we 'give in' to society on many things. Catholics need to think (and PRAY) about this seriously. We may lose the Battle but guess whose going to win the WAR!! God Bless. Memaw


#16

[quote="Memaw, post:15, topic:396881"]
I don't think there as ignorant as they are scandalous. I think they are doing all this ON PURPOSE to try and destroy the Catholic Church which they will NEVER be able to do. Sad to say, they may destroy some Catholics in the battle. Let's face it, there is a real war going on against the Catholic Church and I think its time us Catholics learn our Faith much better than we seem to know and stand strong with the Catholic Church during these terrible times. Fr. John Hardon S.J said many years ago that America is heading for real trouble and we need to be as faithful to the Church as the Early Martyrs were. Are we really willing to die for our Faith if need be?? Or would we 'give in' to society on many things. Catholics need to think (and PRAY) about this seriously. We may lose the Battle but guess whose going to win the WAR!! God Bless. Memaw

[/quote]

While I agree with you and admire the fervency and passion of your stand, the 62-38% vote margin in a predominantly Catholic country indicates that a lot of Catholics voted for the referendum for gay marriage. I am trying to better understand why would that happen in a country that is over 84% Catholic according to a Pew Survey. Does anyone have any ideas on that? That really stunned me.

I figured the referendum would fail based on the large Roman Catholic population combined with Catholic teaching on the subject, with which I agree, by the way.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

In the news piece I heard, only one district out of 43 in Ireland voted against the referendum, and that was a rural district with high church attendance. That makes me think that Ireland has sadly become very liberal and secular in its views on social issues, but that is just conjecture on my part.


#17

[quote="Tommy999, post:16, topic:396881"]
While I agree with you and admire the fervency and passion of your stand, the 62-38% vote margin in a predominantly Catholic country indicates that a lot of Catholics voted for the referendum for gay marriage. I am trying to better understand why would that happen in a country that is over 84% Catholic according to a Pew Survey. Does anyone have any ideas on that? That really stunned me.

I figured the referendum would fail based on the large Roman Catholic population combined with Catholic teaching on the subject, with which I agree, by the way.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

In the news piece I heard, only one district out of 43 in Ireland voted against the referendum, and that was a rural district with high church attendance. That makes me think that Ireland has sadly become very liberal and secular in its views on social issues, but that is just conjecture on my part.

[/quote]

I guess when we look at our own country and look at how many Catholics helped put Obama (pro-planned parenthood, pro-abortion) into office twice we should not be surprised. And if SSM was put to a vote here, many of these same Catholics would probably vote for it.
It was definitely a landslide in Ireland. Probably a sign of the future.


#18

[quote="Tommy999, post:12, topic:396881"]
I am relieved to hear that the RCC will not be put in a position of being forced to perform same sex weddings in Ireland because that would seem unfair for the Church to go against one of her steadfast teachings.

However, I am not familiar enough to know how far the new law will extend. I was mainly curious since Ireland is predominantly Catholic and presumably there will be homosexual Catholics who might try to push the envelope, so to speak.

[/quote]

Ireland may seem to be predominantly Catholic, but many of them are not practicing their faith in its fullness.

An aged Irish priest (now deceased) here in the U.S. told us that Ireland had become very materialistic.

So, how Catholic a country is depends on the intensity and sincerity of the individual Catholics who live there.

And, by the grace of God it is possible for someone who has same sex attraction to live a single and holy life. And, the same goes for heterosexual people if they cooperate with the grace of God which is available to them.


#19

My priest said "we may have to get out of the marriage business".
MEANING.......
That the Church may opt to not be "official" ministers for the State regarding marriage. The Church has the ability to perform a legal marriage from the state. They must submit the paperwork to the Courthouse and are considered the official "marrying" entity.
In future, the Church may 'Bless marriages' and continue to witness "Sacramental marriages" before the courthouse marriage occurs. That way, they can opt to refuse to bless a marriage that is "irregular". I believe this is the way it happens in Mexico.
They must marry by the State to be legal. Mexico does not recognize church marriages. That's why so many immigrants have never married in the church. (and can't go receive communion). We have many Mexican convalidations at out parish for this reason.

My Irish immigrant husband and my Irish priest both said to day that their parents and grandparents are rolling over in their graves.


#20

It's only a matter of time.

You read cases about christian bakers who have been forced to shut down or bake cakes for married same sex couples.

The Church will eventually be faced with this choice, marry same sex couples or you will be closed down and don't think that freedom of religion laws will protect us. They are being slowly eroded away. If not in our lifetime then definitely in our children's.


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