Question about Jesus sacrifice


#21

Can you help me understand Isaiah 53:5? Everything else I am understanding but I am having an impossible time grasping the meaning of this verse without PSA?


#22

The Baptism in reference, is the Baptism of Blood. All the Apostles, except St. John, were martyred.

Jesus did not have a baptism to wash away original sin?

Jesus had no original sin to wash away. His baptism was “to fulfill all justice”.

Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now:

for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness.

Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Jesus did not have a baptism to wash away original sin?

Or, did I understand your question correctly? Do you mean, did Jesus establish a Sacrament of Baptism?


#23

Can you help me understand Isaiah 53:5? Everything else I am understanding but I am having an impossible time grasping the meaning of this verse without PSA?
But he was pierced for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his wounds we are healed.

God’s chastisement upon Israel was that of Roman oppression of their land. Jesus chose to suffer this Roman oppression. Pierced by Roman nails, crushed by Roman beatings. All this Roman oppression due to Israel’s sins was what Jesus had to face by being born during that period.

It is very important that the term “chastise” here be properly understood. Some people interpret it as “punish,” but the Biblical term here is “chastise,” which refers to fatherly discipline of children. In other words, you MUST be a child, and the point of chastising is for correction, not for destruction. So by calling it a chastisement, this makes it impossible for it to be Penal Substitution, since PSA does not see the scenario as fatherly discipline but rather as a vengeful God judicially imposing the death penalty.


#24

Isaiah 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Men despised Him:

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Because He was despised by men, men erroneously believed that God hated Him.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Ok. I see. “the chastisement”. The “punishment”.

Well, again. What does your Protestant upbringing tell you is the punishment for sin?

Jesus Christ laid down His life and accepted that punishment willingly.

John 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

That is the chastisement which was due to us and which He took upon Himself.

So, what about the bruising and stripes by which we are healed?

To me, my opinion, this has to do with an all together different biblical principle. The principle of suffering. Have you read the book of Job? There we find that God permitted Satan to test Job and thus to refine His faith by fire. Ultimately, Job passed the test.

Surprisingly, we find, in Scripture, the following words:

Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

So, in my opinion, the suffering of Job is a foreshadowing of the suffering of Christ. Remember that I said that Jesus was tortured by Satan and his minions. This was permitted by God just as He permitted Satan to torture Job.

Do you think that God was somehow punishing Job when He permitted Satan to test Him? If you read the entire book, you’ll see that everyone else thought that Job was being punished by God.

So, with respect to Job, we can also say, “we esteemed him as stricken, smitten of God”, can we not?

But God did not do it to punish Job nor to punish His Son. But to bring glory to Himself through the perfect faith and love that He knew they would display towards Him.

So, in my opinion, Jesus’ death on the Cross is not a punishment. But His suffering is what all children of God must endure in order to prove their faith to God.

Hebrews 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

I hope that helps.


#25

This is an amazing breakdown! With everything de Maria has shown me then this just brings it home! Thank you!


#26

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