Question about King Solomon:


#1

We all know that this cad was a player…though, that may not be the correct term for a king who owned all these women. Anyway, what is the Church’s teaching on whether if he is in Heaven or not? Do they speculate or say one way or the other? I recall, as a Protestant, many not thinking that he did get in, because, the way it is stated in the Bible, the end of his life, really didn’t look all to pleasing to God, but, I have always kind of didn’t like that. Does anybody here know if the Church has said anything?


#2

Hmmm … went to Mass today, huh?

I think the answer is the same for just about everybody. We don’t really know for sure. It would depend on the disposition of his heart at the time he died, and nobody knows that for sure. Only formal canonization gives us a better idea, and the Church lacks the facilties to canonize long-dead Jews.


#3

Our priest told us yesterday that Solomon was a spoiled brat. It was quite funny. For any priests here - if you want people to pay attention to your homilies, make them funny! If you hear the cong. laughing you know you missed out on something and you learn to pay attention. Then you hear all the other stuff, too.

The Church has no authority to send people to hell or to name people in hell. Or so I read in a Kreeft book. Which makes me wonder why we make such a big deal of judas?


#4

Slightly off topic, but Judas did not necessarily go to Hell, and God certainly didn’t condemn him by predestining him to betray Jesus. He had the chance to repent and come back to Jesus and ask forgiveness, which he did not do.

As the Church teaches concerning suicide, it is possible that in any final instance of life, concious or not, before his death, Judas could have repented.

In fact, some Catholic theologians in the past have speculated that Juda hung himself because he wanted to go to the afterlife and find Jesus and ask His forgiveness. Of course this may not have worked, since Jesus went to Abraham’s bosom and Judas may have gone to hell, but then again if Judas hung himself BECAUSE he was repentant and wanted to seek Christ’s forgiveness, that might count for something since he was trying to do what he thought was right, and in fact sacrificing his life for the sake of following Jesus’ command to confess and be forgiven. This idea becomes more interesting when you realize that Jesus hadn’t really taught his Apostles all that we know today until after the resurrection, so Judas didn’t necessarily understand everything. Additionally, remember that Jesus said that “you,” speaking to the 12 Apostles (including Judas), “would sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel.” He told this to Judas, knowing that he would betray him. All very interesting.

Of course I am not meaning to support Judas, or act like he’s my favorite. It’s just a wildly interesting theological question. :slight_smile:


#5

Wait, WHAT?!!!

starts new thread


#6

[quote=cardenio]Our priest told us yesterday that Solomon was a spoiled brat. It was quite funny. For any priests here - if you want people to pay attention to your homilies, make them funny! If you hear the cong. laughing you know you missed out on something and you learn to pay attention. Then you hear all the other stuff, too.

The Church has no authority to send people to hell or to name people in hell. Or so I read in a Kreeft book. Which makes me wonder why we make such a big deal of judas?
[/quote]

Do you remember the reasons behind him saying this? Like examples and such? I’ve never thought of him as a spoiled brat, but, I’ve never really given that much thought.


#7

I was an alter server and he walks out to the aisle to give the homily, which means I’m behind him and so everything’s muffled. Which makes it easy to zone out. Something about… at that time, there was no conception, no idea of an afterlife at all. Solomon is so intent on having his name all over. Builds the temple. That might help some… I’ll ask my parents tomorrow (they were in the pew, lucky them). It’s 1:00am and I’m stuck here updating antivirus stuff…


#8

It is my understanding that the Temple was built to be an honor to God, not Solomon. Also, Solomon is the man whom was humble in prayer and rewarded for it by God.


#9

[quote=adstrinity]Do you remember the reasons behind him saying this? Like examples and such? I’ve never thought of him as a spoiled brat, but, I’ve never really given that much thought.
[/quote]

I don’t know about the spoiled brat thing, but I would like to know what happened to his wisdom! In Deut. 17:14 God puts limitations on royal authority. There were three main things a king should not do:

  1. Acquire many horses- this would mean returning to Egypt. Horses were also meant as an offensive position. If you amass an offensive army chances are you will be attacking/invading soon. God gave the Israelites the land they needed, no more no less.

  2. Aquire many wives - who could turn his heart away. One of the arguements for priestly celibacy is that a man could be divided between his work for the Lord and his wife. Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines, when would he have the time to govern?

  3. Aquire silver and gold in great quantity - This ties into the first two, I think. If you have an army how do you maintain it? Taxes. If you have 1,000 women (and their children) to provide for where, as king, does your salary come from? Taxes.

Solomon did all these to a huge extent and was the last king of the united kingdom of Israel. He burdened the people so much during his reign. Yes, he built the temple but he also built many palaces for himself. His son, Rehoboam (who I think was the spoiled one), when he came to the throne refused to ease the tax burden on the people. They revolted, the kingdom was divided.


#10

David also had wives and concubines. The old testament is rife with such goings on. It truly is a history of mankinds unerstanding of God and what he demands of us. Took them a while to figure it all out. One man, one woman. No knowledge, no sin.


#11

Because of this [bribery among the Judges], all the chiefs of Israel gathered together and went to Samuel in Ramah. They said to him, “You are already old and your sons are not following your ways. Give us a king to rule over us as in all the other nations.” Samuel was very displeased with what they said, “Give us a King to rule us,” and he prayed to YHWH. And YHWH told him, “Give to this people all that they ask for. They are not rejecting you but they have rejected me as their king. They are now doing to you what they did to me from the day I brought them out of Egypt until now, forsaking me and serving other gods. Nevertheless, listen to them, and give them a serious warning. Tell them how they will be treated by their king.”

[1 Samuel 8:4-9]

For Israel to have a king is a bad move for they are a nation who have only God for their ruler. Demanding a human king is a retrograde move and breaks the Covenant made between God and His people on Sinai in the book of Exodus. It is yet another turning against God.

The history of Israel thereafter, and the story of the monarchs of Israel demonstrates the working out of Samuels warnings against Kingship [1 Sam 8:10-19]. Almost without exception the monarchy proves to be a bitter disappointment and a heartbreak to Israel.


#12

[quote=adstrinity]We all know that this cad was a player…though, that may not be the correct term for a king who owned all these women. Anyway, what is the Church’s teaching on whether if he is in Heaven or not? Do they speculate or say one way or the other? I recall, as a Protestant, many not thinking that he did get in, because, the way it is stated in the Bible, the end of his life, really didn’t look all to pleasing to God, but, I have always kind of didn’t like that. Does anybody here know if the Church has said anything?
[/quote]

Solomon, a cad? I never saw anything in my Bible that would support such an assertion, any more than I can find one that would support such against King David.

They, like all of us, are human, and I see in their lives both great humanity and great love of God as He deals with them.

I think that the Psalms, Proverbs, and Ecclesiates as well as the books of Samuel and Kings give us great insight into what the Jews understood of God at that point (they did indeed not have a concept of the afterlife as we know it today).

I look at Proverbs and see a man who loves God and has a pretty devout and fresh view of life, God, and the world, and then I look at Ecclesiates and I see that same guy many years later jaded by the years of wine, women, and song, (as well as politics?). In that context it all makes sense to me.

Did he go to hell? I doubt it and I hope not, but since none of us can be sure of that until we get there, I am more concerned with insuring that I get my happy lil Irish :irish1: hide into the Kingdom of God than second guessing The Most High concerning the souls of some of His people, which is patently none of my affair. :slight_smile:
Pax vobiscum,


closed #13

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