Question about remarriage


#1

I have been previously married, but if it was not a sacramental marriage am I able to have a sacramental Marriage that will be recognized by the church with another woman that is Catholic? (The woman I was married to was not Catholic (or Christian) therefore, never received any of the sacraments.)

-Since I did not have a sacramental marriage do I need to do anything for the church too see it as annulled? If so, what do I need to do?

Other info:
The one I am dating now is Catholic and has never been married
I have one son from my previous marriage

I have been dating her for about 6 months and she is very strong with her faith. I want to know if it is even possible for us to get married if that is where this relationship leads to, I would not like to put her in a situation where she is not able to have a sacramental marraige because of my past...

Thank you for your time and help


#2

[quote="mrfree, post:1, topic:235187"]
I have been previously married, but if it was not a sacramental marriage am I able to have a sacramental Marriage that will be recognized by the church with another woman that is Catholic? (The woman I was married to was not Catholic (or Christian) therefore, never received any of the sacraments.)

-Since I did not have a sacramental marriage do I need to do anything for the church too see it as annulled? If so, what do I need to do?

Other info:
The one I am dating now is Catholic and has never been married
I have one son from my previous marriage

I have been dating her for about 6 months and she is very strong with her faith. I want to know if it is even possible for us to get married if that is where this relationship leads to, I would not like to put her in a situation where she is not able to have a sacramental marraige because of my past...

Thank you for your time and help

[/quote]

Not enough information and, in any case, not really something you want advice on from random posters (even nice ones like moi). . .

Please talk to your priest ASAP and give HIM all the relevant details.


#3

mrfree: Talk to a priest.Marriage outside the Church is considered legal.You may need an annulment.there may be extenduating circumsstances.


#4

As you were legally married to your first wife, I'm fairly certain you will need to secure a declaration of nullity for that first marriage before you can remarry. It shouldn't be hard to get if she was never baptized or if you were not married in a church (any church).

Speak with your parish priest about how to get started.


#5

[quote="mrfree, post:1, topic:235187"]
I have been previously married, but if it was not a sacramental marriage am I able to have a sacramental Marriage that will be recognized by the church with another woman that is Catholic? (The woman I was married to was not Catholic (or Christian) therefore, never received any of the sacraments.)

[/quote]

There are many missing facts here, all of which are relevant to whether or not you would be declared free to marry and what process might be used in doing so. This includes whether or not you were a Catholic at the time of the marriage, and if you were a Catholic whether or not you married according to Canon Law including appropriate permissions and dispensations.

You should make an appointment with your priest and begin the process by laying out all the facts.

It is certainly possible for a Catholic to **validly **marry an unbaptized person. If you followed all the requirements of the Church, you did so. The marriage is called a natural marriage. The fact that it isn't a sacrament doesn't mean it isn't valid.

The priest will help you determine whether or not you need a full tribunal petition for nullity, an administrative case due to lack of form, or a petition for dissolution of the bond via the Petrine Privilege.

See this chart for a quick overview: diocs.org/Portals/1/Documents/Tribunal/Decision_matrix.pdf

[quote="mrfree, post:1, topic:235187"]
-Since I did not have a sacramental marriage do I need to do anything for the church too see it as annulled? If so, what do I need to do?

[/quote]

Sacramentality and validity are two different things. You have a prior bond until the Church declares otherwise. Therefore, the first step is to make an appointment with your priest and lay out all the facts. He may need to do research to determine whether or not you need a full tribunal petition, an administrative case, or a petition for dissolution of the bond.

[quote="mrfree, post:1, topic:235187"]
-I have been dating her for about 6 months and she is very strong with her faith. I want to know if it is even possible for us to get married if that is where this relationship leads to, I would not like to put her in a situation where she is not able to have a sacramental marraige because of my past...

[/quote]

Go see your priest and put the brakes on this relationship until you have been declared free to marry.


#6

[quote="Sparki777, post:4, topic:235187"]
As you were legally married to your first wife, I'm fairly certain you will need to secure a declaration of nullity for that first marriage before you can remarry. *It shouldn't be hard to get if she was never baptized or if you were not married in a church (any church). *

[/quote]

This isn't accurate.

Marriages between non-Catholics are valid without regard to where they married. The baptismal status of the individual is not relevant.

Marriages between Catholics and the unbaptized can be valid if the Catholic followed required canon law processes to marry the unbaptized person.


#7

Thank you for your replies, I am planning to speak with a preist this week to get further information.

More background:

I was Baptized Lutheran as a child but my parents were not very adament about attending church while growing up. Since my divorice I began attending a Catholic Church and am doing the RCIA program. No I was not Catholic when I married so, I assume I did not marry according to Canon Law.

My Ex-Wife is not Christian and was not Baptized so I guess I fall under #14 for the chart linked by 1ke


#8

[quote="1ke, post:6, topic:235187"]
This isn't accurate.

Marriages between non-Catholics are valid without regard to where they married. The baptismal status of the individual is not relevant.

Marriages between Catholics and the unbaptized can be valid if the Catholic followed required canon law processes to marry the unbaptized person.

[/quote]

Thanks for the correction.


#9

[quote="mrfree, post:7, topic:235187"]
Thank you for your replies, I am planning to speak with a preist this week to get further information.

More background:

I was Baptized Lutheran as a child but my parents were not very adament about attending church while growing up. Since my divorice I began attending a Catholic Church and am doing the RCIA program. No I was not Catholic when I married so, I assume I did not marry according to Canon Law.

My Ex-Wife is not Christian and was not Baptized so I guess I fall under #14 for the chart linked by 1ke

[/quote]

As non Catholics you were not bound by the elements in Canon Law that a Catholic is bound too. As a protestant you were permitted to attempt marriage in any form that you wished. So we must presume until proven otherwise that your first marriage is a valid one. The priest will help you determine which process to follow. Or you can get advice from your diocesan tribunal itself.


#10

[quote="mrfree, post:7, topic:235187"]
I was Baptized Lutheran as a child but my parents were not very adament about attending church while growing up. Since my divorice I began attending a Catholic Church and am doing the RCIA program. No I was not Catholic when I married so, I assume I did not marry according to Canon Law.

[/quote]

Neither you nor your ex-wife were Catholics at the time you married. Therefore, neither of you were required to follow canon law requirements.

Your marriage is presumed to be valid.

[quote="mrfree, post:7, topic:235187"]
My Ex-Wife is not Christian and was not Baptized so I guess I fall under #14 for the chart linked by 1ke

[/quote]

You would fall under #11 if this was the first marriage for both of you.


#11

Thanks again for the replies--Yes it would be #11 for me, thank you for the correction.

Here is the reply I received from the Director of Faith Formation (who set me up for RCIA) when asking the same question:

You should be able to eventually have a sacramental marriage in the Church. In a technical way, the Church doesn’t “recognize” the first marriage since it was not between a Catholic and a baptized Christian and performed in the rites of the Church. However, the Church does usually require people in such circumstances to be civilly divorced and also get a “declaration of nullity” (what most people call annulment) to insure that the marriage is not in effect any more.

To begin to work on this, you need to see a Catholic priest- preferably the one who is the pastor at the parish you want to marry in and he helps you through the formal process and paperwork. This can sometimes take a while (meaning months) so it is good to get working on it as soon as you are sure you want to. In this case, it is pretty clear-cut but there is still a process to follow. Fr. here is really kind and caring and I’m sure would be an easy person to work with. If you are planning to be married some other parish, you’d want to check with the pastor there.


#12

[quote="mrfree, post:1, topic:235187"]
I -Since I did not have a sacramental marriage do I need to do anything for the church too see it as annulled? If so, what do I need to do?

[/quote]

the question is whether your previous marriage was valid. you will have to ask your pastor as there are too many variables to go into here.

[quote="mrfree, post:7, topic:235187"]
No I was not Catholic when I married so, I assume I did not marry according to Canon Law.

[/quote]

you were not bound by canon law so that is not a consideration

two non-Catholics who were otherwise free to marry are considered validly married until proven otherwise, so most likely you will need an annulment if that marriage has ended civilly, and you now wish to remarry, and have since become Catholic, or want to marry a Catholic. There are dozens of variations that can affect this so you really will get no useful answer here, and your best, quickest route to a solid answer is to see your pastor


#13

[quote="mrfree, post:11, topic:235187"]
Thanks again for the replies--Yes it would be #11 for me, thank you for the correction.

Here is the reply I received from the Director of Faith Formation (who set me up for RCIA) when asking the same question:

You should be able to eventually have a sacramental marriage in the Church. In a technical way, the Church doesn’t “recognize” the first marriage since it was not between a Catholic and a baptized Christian and performed in the rites of the Church. However, the Church does usually require people in such circumstances to be civilly divorced and also get a “declaration of nullity” (what most people call annulment) to insure that the marriage is not in effect any more.

To begin to work on this, you need to see a Catholic priest- preferably the one who is the pastor at the parish you want to marry in and he helps you through the formal process and paperwork. This can sometimes take a while (meaning months) so it is good to get working on it as soon as you are sure you want to. In this case, it is pretty clear-cut but there is still a process to follow. Fr. here is really kind and caring and I’m sure would be an easy person to work with. If you are planning to be married some other parish, you’d want to check with the pastor there.

[/quote]

WOW! That person is in error about the Church not 'technically' recognizing your prior marriage. The Church presumes most marriages are valid - only the marriage of Catholics married outside the Church without a dispensation don't enjoy that presumption.

You can petition for a decree of nullity in the diocese where you live or in the diocese where you were married. You can see your pastor or call the diocese and ask to speak to someone in the Marriage Tribunal Office. Do it now, before you get further involved with this Catholic woman. It may take a year or two for a final decision from the Tribunal and you have to be aware that the answer may be "Your previous marriage was valid."


#14

[quote="mrfree, post:11, topic:235187"]
Here is the reply I received from the Director of Faith Formation (who set me up for RCIA) when asking the same question:

[/quote]

I really suggest you make an appointment with the priest and discuss it directly with him.

[quote="mrfree, post:11, topic:235187"]
You should be able to eventually have a sacramental marriage in the Church. In a technical way, the Church doesn’t “recognize” the first marriage since it was not between a Catholic and a baptized Christian and performed in the rites of the Church.

[/quote]

Frankly, this is just flat wrong.

[quote="mrfree, post:11, topic:235187"]
However, the Church does usually require people in such circumstances to be civilly divorced and also get a “declaration of nullity” (what most people call annulment) to insure that the marriage is not in effect any more.

[/quote]

*Someone *needs some training since they are in a position that interacts with people in your situation.

Again, not correct.

[quote="mrfree, post:11, topic:235187"]
To begin to work on this, you need to see a Catholic priest- preferably the one who is the pastor at the parish you want to marry in and he helps you through the formal process and paperwork. This can sometimes take a while (meaning months) so it is good to get working on it as soon as you are sure you want to.

[/quote]

This is accurate. See your priest.

Since your ex was not baptized, you have two avenues-- decree of nullity or dissolution of the bond (Petrine Privilege). These take different amounts of time, and that varies substantially by diocese.

[quote="mrfree, post:11, topic:235187"]
In this case, it is pretty clear-cut but there is still a process to follow.

[/quote]

Not accurate.

[quote="mrfree, post:11, topic:235187"]
Fr. here is really kind and caring and I’m sure would be an easy person to work with. If you are planning to be married some other parish, you’d want to check with the pastor there.

[/quote]

I suggest making an appointment with the pastor of the parish where you are going through RCIA.


#15

[quote="Phemie, post:13, topic:235187"]
It may take a year or two for a final decision from the Tribunal and you have to be aware that the answer may be "Your previous marriage was valid."

[/quote]

Agreed. However, the ex wife is unbaptized, which opens up the possibility of dissolution of the bond via Petrine Privilege even if a decree of nullity is not forthcoming.


#16

I wish you the best of luck - you really should talk to your priest about all of this. God bless.


#17

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