Question about salvation


#1

I’ve been reading a fabulous book called A Biblical Defense of Roman Catholicism. However, I’m still “wading through” so to speak, not b/c it’s a difficult book to read, but b/c I’m trying to squeeze a whole lot of new info into my head. :stuck_out_tongue:

However, whenever I discuss salvation- what it is, what it entails, and I try to discuss the RC idea of salvation, I get all muddled. People then accuse me of saying that since works are salvific, that RC is a church of works, and JC sacrfice wasn’t enough. Or they say “oh, so you don’t ever know you’re saved till you get to heaven?” How depressing! Or “so you get saved by the Eucharist? Jesus never said that.” He says “whosoever believes in me”…not the Eucharist. Then they bring up all sorts of evangelists and missionaries, people like Corrie Ten Boom and such, who aren’t Catholic, and say that they didn’t teach anything Catholic, and people were brought into the church and serving Christ all the same.

I must be explaining all this badly in order for all this mess to occur practically every time I open my mouth. :frowning: What is salvation, how is it attained, and how do we work for it without it being us trying to earn something we can never earn?:shrug:


#2

That’s quite an order!

Salvation history is the story that the bible tells. History indeed telling the thread of history that traces how we can be saved.

Mankind lost communion with God in our first parents, Adam and Eve. God had made a covenant with them. He adopted them. Not just a creator, but a father.

They decided that they wanted to make the decisions and become “like God” without doing it God’s way. God allowed them to move away from him and he no longer allowed them in his presence. They “fell.”

Now they need to be “saved”.

The continuing story of salvation history deals with how God reaches out to them and renews the covenant of adoption with his people, and how they break the covenant and worship other gods.

During that time, there was the concept of sacrificing. Cain and Abel sacrificed to the Lord. Melchizidek offered bread and wine as a sacrifice for Abraham. Passover was a special one that was a meal and a covenant renewal which included special food: a lamb. The lamb was killed and eaten, its blood marking the house to be spared from death. During the Exodus, God instituted ritual sacrifices.

All these ritual sacrifices were to help the people learn that they have sinned and sin breaks the covenant with God. They were meant to re-connect them with God.

Eventually God sent his only begotten Son Jesus into the world to show 1) how to live without sin and 2) to how to love in a completely self-giving way. This led to his death. Before He died, Jesus placed HIMSELF in the context of the lamb in the Passover meal. He re-covenanted with God in his own body and blood, using bread and wine like Melchizedek. He offered it to his disciples to partake in the covenant and asked them to repeat the ritual in order to allow all to partake in the covenant.

Jesus died and was resurrected in order to show his sacrifice was acceptable to God.

To be saved, you need to believe Jesus’ words when he said in the 6th chapter of John. “…whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world” and again “unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you” and the topper: “Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day”

There is frequently a misunderstanding between some who say “Faith alone” and Catholics who say instead, “Faith, Hope and Love” I believe that the former pack all 3 virtues into the word Faith when THEY say it.

What I mean by this is, if you have faith, that is step 1. The next step is to trust it, Hope. The next step is to act on that trust, Love/Charity. The works that you do, when born of those three virtues, are God’s work. They transform you slowly until you resemble Christ. If you eat his body in the Eucharist, you receive Grace, which is a share in God’s own LIFE! This gives us the power to choose to become more like Jesus in HIS power, not ours. Instead of digesting Him, we ourselves are digested and we become part of the Body of Christ (the Church!).

So yes, believe in Jesus, but specifically believe him when he tells you how to live forever.

This is salvation.


#3

[oneseeker;2861202]I’ve been reading a fabulous book called A Biblical Defense of Roman Catholicism. However, I’m still “wading through” so to speak, not b/c it’s a difficult book to read, but b/c I’m trying to squeeze a whole lot of new info into my head. :stuck_out_tongue:

However, whenever I discuss salvation- what it is, what it entails, and I try to discuss the RC idea of salvation, I get all muddled. People then accuse me of saying that since works are salvific, that RC is a church of works, and JC sacrfice wasn’t enough. Or they say “oh, so you don’t ever know you’re saved till you get to heaven?” How depressing!

Actually a Catholic can know that he/she is “saved” with moral certitude (that he/she is not in mortal sin) however NO one can say for sure without the infallible certitude of God that they will be saved because no person can predict the future and everyone can and some do fall away from grace, (Gal 5:4)
So, we Catholics can and do have confidence in our salvation. I can say with moral certitude that I am “saved.”

Or “so you get saved by the Eucharist? Jesus never said that.” He says “whosoever believes in me”…not the Eucharist.

Well, actually He did say that in John 6:32-58. The Eucharist is a sacrament which means it is a physical means by which we receive supernatural grace and we are saved by grace. The Eucharist gives us grace which gives us the power and strength to overcome the devil and the world of sin.

Then they bring up all sorts of evangelists and missionaries, people like Corrie Ten Boom and such, who aren’t Catholic, and say that they didn’t teach anything Catholic, and people were brought into the church and serving Christ all the same.

Corrie Ten Boom as many non-Catholics do and have lead a devoutly Christian life; they lived according to the grace they received (Luke 12:48) but just because they weren’t Catholic doesn’t mean Catholicism isn’t the Church Jesus established, in fact history attests to this truth. The truths Corrie Ten Boom and other non-Catholics had were given to them from the Catholic church as her Christian faith tradition was a product of the reformation.

I must be explaining all this badly in order for all this mess to occur practically every time I open my mouth. :frowning: What is salvation, how is it attained, and how do we work for it without it being us trying to earn something we can never earn?:shrug:

Yes, some people try to make salvation so simplistic, they ignore major portions of it in the Bible and others over explain it so as to make confusing to some.

Here is a portion of an article that explains salvation…

**

Salvation has many components:

  1. saved by grace – Rom. 3:23,24; Titus 2:11; Eph 2:5,8
  2. saved by faith – Acts 16:31; Eph. 2:8; I Peter 1:9
  3. saved by confession – Rom. 10:10; I John 1:9; James 5:16
  4. saved by repentance – Luke 13:3; II Cor. 7:10; II Peter 3:9
  5. saved by baptism – Mark 16:16; John 3:5; I Peter 3:21
  6. saved by the Holy Ghost – John 3:5; Rom. 8:9; Eph. 1:13,14
  7. saved by endurance – II Tim. 2:10; James 1:12; Heb. 3:
    **

Here is the entire article that explains Biblically, how we are saved…
apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/process.htm


#4

Here’s a pretty good answer that has scriptural backing:

“Are you saved?” asks the Fundamentalist. The Catholic should reply: “As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).”

Some good documents on CA:

Are we once saved, always saved?

Are works important?

Is our salvation assured?

Of Water and the Spirit: Not by Faith Alone

Assurance Isn’t Assuring

Aren’t we saved by faith alone?

There are more if you look around on this site…


#5

This is the way I think of it:

Jesus redeemed us on the cross: He restored us (man) from the bondage of sin to the liberty of the children of God through his satisfactions and merits.

We are currently being sanctified by the Grace of God. Meaning, we are being brought closer to God and through this union brought to moral perfection.

We will be saved. We will attain salvation when we have been completely liberated from sin and its consequences.

Definitions from www.newadvent.com.


#6

I might recommend a short book which compares the Catholic and Protestant positons on salvation.

Jimmy Akin’s book “The Salvation Controversy”

I will post as many of the articles as I could find which Mr. Akin has written and are included in his book. Therefore you could look up most of what is included in the book for free. There are some of the chapters and parts of them which I couldn’t find, but most of the books is contained here in these articles.

Chapter 1
Salvation Past, Present and Future

Chapter 2
Temporal and Eternal Salvation

Chapter 3
Two other kinds of salvation

Chapter 4
Doing Penance

**Chapter 5 **
Indulgences

Chapter 6
Tiptoe through the TULIP

Chapter 7
Resisting and Cooperating with God

Chapter 8
Faith, Works and Boasting
Faith Works and Boasting (another article)

Chapter 9
Justification and Ecumenism


#7

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