Question about the Blessed Trinity


#1

Need the Catholic Church’s teaching on this:

  1. When we pray to one person of the Most Blessed Trinity, do we pray to all three Persons?

  2. Since the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus, does that mean that the Father and the Holy Spirit is also present. In other words, is the entire Holy Trinity present?


#2
  1. I’m not entirely sure about the doctrine, but I’m inclined to say yes, because when you pray to God, you are praying to all three Persons of the Trinity. The question is slightly unclear, though, because I’m not sure how to clearly define “pray to”. If you mean “do they all hear the prayer” then the answer is definitely yes.

  2. Yes. Because of the doctrine of circumincession, all three Persons of the Trinity are present wherever one Person of the Trinity is present.


#3

Sorry by the first question I said “pray to” I meant
If we “adore” or to give “lactria” (due to God alone) to one Person of the Blessed Trinity, do we adore the entire Blessed Trinity?

Thank you


#4

You do, even though you “direct” your worship to one particular Person, you are in fact worshipping the Trinity as well.

Goes to the nature of God. God is simple, so it is impossible to direct anything to only “part” of the Godhead.


#5

Still YES and YES. There are 3 Persons in 1 God; they cannot be separated into 3 persons 3 gods.


#6

Both of these answers are little complex.

To the first, since the Persons are really distinct from each other, one can address one Person of the Trinity in prayer. Yet, since they are indivisible, and the Persons are in another, the prayers to one Person redound to the Others.

To the second, Jesus Christ is the Son (there is no human person in Christ, only a Divine Person who assumed a human nature), not the Father or the Holy Ghost. But, since the Eucharist is Jesus Christ, whole and entire, including the Divinity, which is common to the Three Persons, the answer is yes. In other words, the Son is present on account of the Hypostatic Union, the Father and the Holy Ghost are present on account of the Trinitarian circumincession, whereby the Father and the Holy Ghost are in the Son.


#7

Hi!
…this is one of those Mysteries that we cannot truly comprehend; it’s similar to Christ sitting on the Throne of Majesty and Receiving Adoration from the 24 Elders and the 4 Creatures… since the Lamb (the Alpha and the Omega) is not separated from the Father, how is He not God?

God is Spirit.

Jesus, the Word, is God.

The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son since He is the Spirit of the Father and the Spirit of the Son.

There was only one time when, for the briefest of moments the Son was separated from the Father… when He took on the sin of the world!

All other times the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are United, even in the Resurrection: The Father Resurrects the Son through the Holy Spirit (1st and 3rd Person) and the Son has the Power to take His Life back (2nd Person)–quite a conundrum! :nerd::popcorn::popcorn:

However, in the case of the Holy Eucharist… only the Son, the Word, Became Incarnate so the Blessing of the Bread and Wine does not convert the Father’s and Holy Spirit’s essence (their Spiritual Being) into the Body and Blood of Christ’s humanity; rather, Christ’s humanity is shared with us and converts us into Christ’s Divinity (since Christ offers His Body and Blood as Spiritual sustenance to us).

Maran atha!

Angel


#8

God the Son has NEVER been separated from the Father and Holy Spirit. That is impossible.


#9

There was never any time when the Son was seperated from the Father. The Divine Essence is wholly indivisible, and each Person is the One Divine Essence whole and entire. When Christ cries out the words of Psalm 22, He’s using it figuratively, to describe the spiritual sorrow that He felt in the lower parts of His soul (the higher parts of His soul were still in infinite bliss, since He possessed the Beatific Vision throughout).

All other times the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are United, even in the Resurrection: The Father Resurrects the Son through the Holy Spirit (1st and 3rd Person) and the Son has the Power to take His Life back (2nd Person)–quite a conundrum! :nerd::popcorn::popcorn:

Careful, these are appropriations. In reality, it was a free act of the Divine Will to resurrect the body of Jesus Christ, and since the Divine Will is the Divine Essence, which is one and the same in the Three Divine Persons, all Three Persons resurrected Christ from the dead.

However, in the case of the Holy Eucharist… only the Son, the Word, Became Incarnate so the Blessing of the Bread and Wine does not convert the Father’s and Holy Spirit’s essence (their Spiritual Being) into the Body and Blood of Christ’s humanity; rather, Christ’s humanity is shared with us and converts us into Christ’s Divinity (since Christ offers His Body and Blood as Spiritual sustenance to us).

It is true that only the Son became Incarnate. But, since the Hypostatic Union united the Divine Nature to the Human Nature in the Person of the Son (the natures remaining distinct and unmixed), the Father and the Holy Ghost were present in Christ as well. Not, indeed by the Hypostatic Union, but by the Trinitarian circumincession.

Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas


#10

…sorry, I don’t follow; do you mean to say it is impossible that the Son has never been separated from the Father and the Holy Spirit or do you mean that my exegesis about Christ’s Separation from the Father and the Holy Spirit as He took on the sins of the world is impossible to have happened?

Maran atha!

Angel


#11

…so Christ’s taking on the sin of the world was only metaphorically? Christ only shed His human life but did not actually become sin? …and He made a slight mistake when He cautioned Mary Magdalene not to touch Him because He had not yet gone to the Father?

Careful, these are appropriations. In reality, it was a free act of the Divine Will to resurrect the body of Jesus Christ, and since the Divine Will is the Divine Essence, which is one and the same in the Three Divine Persons, all Three Persons resurrected Christ from the dead.

…I think you’ve misread.

It is true that only the Son became Incarnate. But, since the Hypostatic Union united the Divine Nature to the Human Nature in the Person of the Son (the natures remaining distinct and unmixed), the Father and the Holy Ghost were present in Christ as well. Not, indeed by the Hypostatic Union, but by the Trinitarian circumincession.

Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

…so the Body of Christ is the Body of the Holy Spirit? Christ never ceased being a Divine Being (God), so there’s no confusion with the Trinitarian Circumincession.

Maran atha!

Angel


#12

I am saying that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit have never been separated. It is impossible. The Holy Trinity is ONE GOD.


#13

No. Christ took the punishment for man’s sin on Himself. But it is absolutely impossible to seperate the Son from the Father. The Divine Essence is entirely indivisible. Soteriologically, Jesus Christ offered Himself in His human nature for man’s sin, and accepted it in His Divine Nature. This holds whether or not one hold’s Christ sacrifice to be intrinsically efficacious (as the Thomists hold) or extrinsicially efficacious (as the Scotists hold). When Christs uses Psalm 22 which beings “My God, my God why have you forsaken me?”, He’s using it metaphorically. He was not literally forsaken by God, since He never contracted any sin, which alone seperates from God. But because He took the guilt of our sin on Himself, the pain in His soul was such that He could only describe it as having been forsaken by God. But He still possessed the Beatific Vision throughout. As regards the saying of Mary Magdalene, He went to the Father in His human nature. In His Divine Nature, the Father has been in Him and He in the Father from all eternity.

…I think you’ve misread.

No I didn’t. What you’re saying is that the Three Persons cooperated in a different albeit complimentary roles in the Resurrection etc. The truth, however, is that the Three Persons, in and one and the same act, raised the body and soul of Christ from the dead. Christ could not do anything ad extra in His Divine nature, that Father and the Holy Ghost did not also do in one and the same act, since the Divine Will, really identitical with the Divine Essence, is numerically one and the same in the Three Persons.

…so the Body of Christ is the Body of the Holy Spirit? Christ never ceased being a Divine Being (God), so there’s no confusion with the Trinitarian Circumincession.

No. The Body of Christ is the body of the Person of Christ which is the Person of the Son, who is really distinct from the Person of the Holy Spirit. Christ never ceased being God (which is why seperation from the Father was impossible), and since the Divinity was united to the humanity of Christ, not in the natures, but in the Person, Christ is present in the Eucharist by the Hypostatic Union (He is made present by transubstantiation, but He is present by the Hypostatic Union). However, since Christ possessed the Divine Nature, which is numerically one, and thus common, to the Three Persons, the Father and the Holy Spirit are present in Christ, by the Trinitarian circumincession. This does not mean that the Father and the Holy Ghost became incarnate. It just means that since the Son was never severed from the Divinity (which is impossible, since they are, in fact, really identical), the Father and the Holy Spirit, although really distinct from the Son, are inseperable from Him, since they are numerically one and the same Essence.

I admit, that this is difficult, so don’t feel terrible if you can’t understand it. But we must be careful that in admitting the distinction of Persons, we don’t seperate them.

Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas


#14

Hi, Latinitas!
…I think that because I see Christ’s humanity as the one portion of Christ that had to be separated from the Father and the Holy Spirit… I cause confusion in others… to me the Word never ceased being God; yet, He took on the like of man in order to become the Lamb of God; since God is Spirit and cannot die only through the Incarnation could this be achieved. As the Son of God, both humanity and Divinity, were involved in each of the steps that Jesus took. At the Cross He had to shed His humanity, even if for just a few hours, in order to achieve every single prophecy.

In my estimation, it is this part of Jesus that felt the separation from the Father (which would be inclusive of the Holy Spirit) and it is because of this reason that He, Christ–both as human and Divine–felt the sadness (sweating as though blood when desiring not to take of the Cup) that He did when He cries out " Eli, Eli, lamma sabacthani?"

…again, I apologize for the confusion; the point I was attempting to make is that there are differences in the function of Christ as the Lamb of God (in his humanity) which does not detract from His Divinity (as attested to by Christ’s Resurrection where all Three Divine Persons are stated as the One who Resurrected Christ–ditto Creation); this Divine Unity is forever indissoluble.

The facets that we see, in my belief, is to facilitate our finite understanding; God is not defined by what we are able to comprehend–rather, He allows us to know of Him in manners that we can assimilate.

Maran atha!

Angel


#15

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