Question about the End times?


#1

I was raised Baptist and was taught that after Jesus's Second Coming, the dead will all be resurrected. The righteous go to Heaven and the unrighteous go to Hell. Those that are alive upon the earth at this time will be removed by the angels to go to heaven or hell respectively.
(But aren't people already in Heaven and in Hell right now, before the resurrection of the dead? How can the unrighteous dead be raised up to go to Hell if they are already there from dying in their sins?)

I'm a bit confused on what the Catholic Church teaches on this subject. What happens at Christ's Second Coming? What is the Resurrection of the dead that Catholics are looking forward to?


#2

[quote="MattJB, post:1, topic:324516"]
I was raised Baptist and was taught that after Jesus's Second Coming, the dead will all be resurrected. The righteous go to Heaven and the unrighteous go to Hell. Those that are alive upon the earth at this time will be removed by the angels to go to heaven or hell respectively.
(But aren't people already in Heaven and in Hell right now, before the resurrection of the dead? How can the unrighteous dead be raised up to go to Hell if they are already there from dying in their sins?)

I'm a bit confused on what the Catholic Church teaches on this subject. What happens at Christ's Second Coming? What is the Resurrection of the dead that Catholics are looking forward to?

[/quote]

Not the whole answer, but partial: Being human is being soul and body, the soul being the seat of knowledge, wisdom, reason, will. The soul's interface with what is "other" is the body. The soul is separated from the body at death, and not fully "me" until the resurrection. We cannot know the fullness of joy in being with God without our bodies, we cannot give our love to God fully without our bodies, nor is the anguish of hell fully knowable to the soul without the body.

John Martin


#3

The Church’s teaching is found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraphs 668-679. You can find the Catechism on this website, the Vatican website, or through a simple google search. I am a convert from the charismatic/Pentecostal movements. Their theology on the “end times” got me searching for answers from the earliest teachers of the Christian faith. All be darned … they were Catholic! Yikes! That started me on my journey to become a proud, on-fire Catholic. I will pray for you as you seek Truth on this subject … come back often! :thumbsup:


#4

As I understand it, those in Hell will face Jesus at the Great White Throne judgement. Those who are not found in the Book of Life will be cast into the Lake of Fire (along with Hell, which will be empty, and Death). The point being, Hell is a temporary "prison" (see 1 Peter 3:19), but the Lake of Fire is the final "reward" for those who are not found in the Book of Life.


#5

If you take a look at the Aposles’ Creed you will see that we say "I BELIEVE IN THE RESURRECTION OF THE BODY’. Like the other OP said, at death the Soul is separated from the Body. At the Second Coming of Our Lord Jesus Christ, they will be reunited: Soul and body together again. The body of the righteous will be unblemished:):slight_smile:


#6

After we die, our soul goes to heaven, purgatory, or hell. It is only the souls of people that are in heaven right now. Spiritual death, death in the soul, has been conquered in those who die in the state of grace and so their souls (mind,intellect…) already experience eternal life in heaven.

It is the resurrection of our body at the end of the world that we look forward to - when death will be conquered in our flesh also.


#7

[quote="MattJB, post:1, topic:324516"]
....(But aren't people already in Heaven and in Hell right now, before the resurrection of the dead? How can the unrighteous dead be raised up to go to Hell if they are already there from dying in their sins?)

I'm a bit confused on what the Catholic Church teaches on this subject. What happens at Christ's Second Coming? What is the Resurrection of the dead that Catholics are looking forward to?

[/quote]

After we die, our soul goes to heaven, purgatory, or hell. It is only the souls of people that are in heaven right now. Spiritual death, death in the soul, has been conquered in those who die in the state of grace and so their souls (mind,intellect....) already experience eternal life in heaven.

It is the resurrection of our body at the end of the world that we look forward to - when death will be conquered in our flesh also.


#8

Here's what the Catholic Church teaches about the Last Things:

When each of us dies, our souls are immediately judged by God. This is called the Particular Judgment. At this point we begin our eternal destiny. If we are going to hell, our souls go directly there. If we are deemed worthy of heaven, our souls will go directly to heaven, or if we are going to heaven but are in need of purification, we may go to Purgatory first for a while (everyone in Purgatory will eventually go to heaven). Whatever our fate, our souls will stay there (heaven or hell) until the end of time, at which time the Second Coming will occur.

At the Second Coming at the end of time, those Christians still alive and who are in a state of sanctifying grace will be taken to heaven (what some Protestants think of as of “the rapture”). Then will occur the General Judgment. At that time the souls of the living and the dead will be reunited with their bodies and brought together in God's presence and judged before all. Those who have already been judged in the Particular Judgment will be brought from wherever their souls were --heaven, hell or Purgatory-- and have their judgment confirmed before all, so that both the justice and mercy of God will be manifest to all.

After this, time and Purgatory will be no more and all will enter with their souls and bodies into their eternal destiny, either hell or heaven.

This is an extremely bare-bones sketch, so if you want to get the details, see the five articles I linked below:

www.pacifier.com/~rosarweb/ll57n1.htm
www.pacifier.com/~rosarweb/ll57n2.htm
www.pacifier.com/~rosarweb/ll57n3.htm
www.pacifier.com/~rosarweb/ll57n4.htm
www.pacifier.com/~rosarweb/ll49n6.htm


#9

[quote="MattJB, post:1, topic:324516"]
I was raised Baptist and was taught that after Jesus's Second Coming, the dead will all be resurrected. The righteous go to Heaven and the unrighteous go to Hell. Those that are alive upon the earth at this time will be removed by the angels to go to heaven or hell respectively.
(But aren't people already in Heaven and in Hell right now, before the resurrection of the dead? How can the unrighteous dead be raised up to go to Hell if they are already there from dying in their sins?)

I'm a bit confused on what the Catholic Church teaches on this subject. What happens at Christ's Second Coming? What is the Resurrection of the dead that Catholics are looking forward to?

[/quote]

When people die, their souls go to either Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory until they eventually go to Heaven from there. But at the resurrection everyone's bodies will be raised and their souls will be put back into their bodies. Those who are saved will be raised in glory, and those who are not saved will be put into their bodies and then thrown into the Lake of Fire forever.


#10

[quote="COPLAND_3, post:9, topic:324516"]
When people die, their souls go to either Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory until they eventually go to Heaven from there. But at the resurrection everyone's bodies will be raised and their souls will be put back into their bodies. Those who are saved will be raised in glory, and those who are not saved will be put into their bodies and then thrown into the Lake of Fire forever.

[/quote]

The Prophecy concerning the rulerships of the nations is written and the major war with the nations on the earth between the false prophet gog beast from the earth and the image {which was held back until the appointed time of the 'convergence'} concerning the 10 worldwide leaders who will have a time of period of rulership allowed for 1335 days or 44 1/2 months or 3 17/24 years.

The gog and magog wars with the nations and peoples on the earth was written in The Prophets concerning the great whirlwind of ships {Philip and Elijah} as written in Daniel.


#11

??? Not sure what that has to do with my post.


#12

I guess peoples will be facing the continuance of the Prophecy as in Revelation coming forward, which means that there is a time to face the situations and the Decisions are renderred. For God Is not an unfair judge concerning peoples and creation.

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus who turns up dead in the middle of the Ministry of Messiah is written. Thus, is Hades mentioned here which became known as purgatory?

Example:

70 x 7 = ({62 + 7} x 7) + 7 last years.

483 + {490 x 4} = 1960 + 483 BC…

  • 49 = 2009…

  • 12…{37 +12 = 49 or 4.9 + 4.9 + 2.45 {4.9/2} = 12.25 } … 25% x 49 = 12.25. 1-5 Seals is written, and 5 is fallen is written {The Kingdom Coming and rising and falling of many for it is Living and active among peoples, nations, and languages is The Tower of Babel Testimony for divisions and Sword.}.

1/4 years is 3 months

1260 + 90 = 1350 or 1230 + 90 = 1320… + 15.

1335 days is written.

1350 - 1335 = 15 = 10 and 5.


#13

And let's not forget E=MC2 (which, I think, is just as relevant as anything cybrs has given). I take that back, E=MC2 is a proven Law of Nature (as established by God), and doesn't require the kind of speculation cybrs seems to be using (what is he talking about anyway? Is this something Harold Camping thought up?).


#14

[quote="Cachonga, post:13, topic:324516"]
And let's not forget E=MC2 (which, I think, is just as relevant as anything cybrs has given). I take that back, E=MC2 is a proven Law of Nature (as established by God), and doesn't require the kind of speculation cybrs seems to be using (what is he talking about anyway? Is this something Harold Camping thought up?).

[/quote]

[quote="Cachonga, post:13, topic:324516"]
And let's not forget E=MC2 (which, I think, is just as relevant as anything cybrs has given). I take that back, E=MC2 is a proven Law of Nature (as established by God), and doesn't require the kind of speculation cybrs seems to be using (what is he talking about anyway? Is this something Harold Camping thought up?).

[/quote]

299,792.458/1609 km/s

89,875,517,873.68176 km^2/s^2 = C^2

If E = 2.77777777777777 e -8 = 1/36,000,000 = 1(6,000 x 6,000) = 1/1kwh. The Final Hour.

M = 2496.542163157827

1335 + 450 Paul + 17 in Egypt Jacob + 130 + 120 Isaac + 75 Abraham = 2127

2496 - 2127 = 369 = 365 + 4 years {last years}


#15

[quote="cybrs, post:14, topic:324516"]

OR>?

299,792.458 km/s = 107925284.88 km/hr

1.164786711642916 e+16 km^2/hr^2 = C^2

If E = 2.77777777777777 e -8 = 1/36,000,000 = 1(6,000 x 6,000) = 1/1kwh. The Final Hour.

M = 323551864.3452544 = 55.20033128832671 kg /years = 49 {7x7} + 6.20033128832671 kg/years

{490 x 4} + 49 = 2009 + ~6.2 = 2015.200331288327... = 2015 plus 2.403908984963534 months {2 1/2 months are written added to 1260 days} which gives : 2018.700331288327...

plus: 2018.5 + 3.5 = 2022...

+- 2 1/2 months {1 month of 29 days may be added on the Adar II month for the Judean calendar during the 7 years}

OR. M = 323551864.3452544 kg/{3114 BC + 2013} x 365.2425 = 172.8160196088699...

  • 55,200 33 12 88 = 117.6156883205432

120 is written.

117.6156883205432 + 3.5 Ministry of Messiah = 121.1156883205432

.1156883205432 x 365.2425 = 42.25429141599607...

1335 - 42.25429141599607 = 1292.745708584004 = 1290 as written + ~2.745708584003926 days = 1290 days + ~2 days + 17 hours '53 minutes' 49 'seconds' and ~' 1/5 plus 1/50 plus 1/1000...' of a second.

{last years}

[/quote]


#16

[quote=cybrs] “a bunch of meaningless numbers not worth repeating (look at the previous 2 posts from him)”
[/quote]

It seems to me that, while there appears to be some logic behind the numbers, there is no context in which to understand what you are saying. I can put up meaningless numbers as easily (for example: 15=7+8 or 15=14+1). By themselves they mean nothing, but if I was to explain where the number 15 came from (such as “when I was 15 years old”) and why I chose the other numbers (“I’m 7 years older than my brother, so he was 8” or “My pet of 14 years died, so I was 1 when we got him”), then people could understand what I’m trying to say. Then again, if this involves date setting for the end of the world, Jesus did tell us clearly that no one but the Father knows the date or the hour. Unless you think you know more than Jesus, you might want to reconsider the futility of such an endeavor.


#17

Ok:...

2 and 777 come from Revelation and Father and Son...

1260 , 1290 . and 1335 come from Daniel concerning the number of days for the last 7 year period cut in half with 75 days added.

+- 15 was a form for expressing the standard deviation error found in statistical mathematics. For example: the age of the earth is held to be with +-3% standard deviation from ~4.54 Billion which gives a range of +-136,200,000 or: 4,676,200,000 - 4,403,800,000.

The Mass was in 1,000's years form for the first 'mis' calcuation which resulted in seconds x minutes = 360 form for hour {KwHr}

  • 9.

#18

cybrs, what is your point? Are you trying to set a date for the end? I can understand where the numbers are coming from, but why are they being used in the way you are using them? How do your mathematics relate to the topic, "question about the End times?" Your meaning is unclear!


#19

#20

[quote="Cachonga, post:18, topic:324516"]
cybrs, what is your point? Are you trying to set a date for the end? I can understand where the numbers are coming from, but why are they being used in the way you are using them? How do your mathematics relate to the topic, "question about the End times?" Your meaning is unclear!

[/quote]

I believe that the number can be calculated is written in Revelation.

3,090,694,600.148939 / {666 x 666 x 666} = 10.46 24 3467718997; 10 horns is written.

For Greeks: .4624 34677 x 666 = 307.98149500852 BC~

323 Alexander the Great BC - 307.98149500852 = 15.01850499147998 years.

3,090,694,600.148939/ {490 x 490 x 490} = 26.27043153787962 = 13.13521576893981 x 2 returning double in the xtra month {solar Gregorian has 52 weeks/2 = 26; /2 = 13 ~months in 12 month form}.

6+6+6 =18 = 10 horns + the beast from the earth is an 8th king.


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