Question about the human soul


#1

I understand that we humans are at the lowest rank in the spiritual world, below angels, which also are at the lowest rank in the angelican order, but once a human dies and his soul is saved, where does he fit in that order? i mean does that soul becomes an angel? or does God holds him apart from angels? what exactly happens here?
Thank you.


#2

Human souls cannot become angles. Sorry.


#3

(disclaimer: I really don’t remember the source of this :frowning: so I can’t give a link)

I remember reading once that certain saints/apostles had joined rank with angels, not become them, just gone higher up the chain.

Now that I think about it… perhaps it was in one of those Fr. Paul O’Sullivan books. I guess it was in this one: All about the angels

I’d highly recommend this book, and author. VERY inspirational :thumbsup:


#4

Man is the highest creature in the earthly world (above inanimate objects, plants, and animals) and the lowest creature in the spiritual world (below angels and God). When our body dies, our soul (hopefully) goes to heaven. A human soul is always a human soul. When a soul goes to heaven, it does not become an angel. Angels are a separate type of creature created by God.

The human soul in heaven is in the Beautific Vision, the presence of God. At the end of time, our bodies will be resurrected and united with our souls, heaven and earth will pass away, and we will live in the New Jerusalem.


#5

It may be a matter of trying compare apples and oranges, both being in a completely different realm to a point, so it's not logical to say one is greater then the other, then again, look to how the body of Christ is represented, how a foot is just as important as an eye.


#6

So what you are basically saying is that, the angelic spirit and the human spirit are 2 completely different entities, are humans and angels equal? lower? higher? or just 2 different entities period.


#7

Angels and humans are 2 different orders of beings, but angels are God's messengers to men. When Mary was assumed into heaven, she became queen of the angels, "They are her instruments and messengers, and they faithfully carry out her instructions by delivering grace to those she chooses." (opus angelorum).
According to saints like Padre Pio, we are each assigned a guardian angel whose job is to enlighten and guide us into God's will. We should ask our angel to guide and help us.
The angel who spoke to John in Revelation said not to worship him, he was a servant of God like John.
I guess I can't answer your question as to whether angels are lower or higher than us, we have different positions in the universe. Probably the Ask an apologist forum could answer that. I know that when we see angels we are tempted to worship them, but we shouldn't.


#8

[quote="bmagana, post:6, topic:181725"]
So what you are basically saying is that, the angelic spirit and the human spirit are 2 completely different entities, are humans and angels equal? lower? higher? or just 2 different entities period.

[/quote]

yeah, created differently, to exist differently. I can't say lower or higher, there is no clear context to base a final answer to it. There are ranks of angels, ranks of demons, ranks of humans. Can a General of a human be below a foot soldier of an angel? That's as far as I can take this discussion unless an angel pops into my room and shows me all of the ropes to this element in person, but what I can say is that we as humans should fear no evil, and this itself tells me at least, ranking wise with one of the elements has clarity we are to know of. The stipulation being though, and should be included with saying that, those that have not rejected God should fear no evil....


#9

Angels absolutely are higher than humans. That is a teaching of the Church. They have superior intellects. That is why their choice, to follow God (angels) or to go against God (demons) is permanent.

From the CCC:

I. THE ANGELS **
**The existence of angels - a truth of faith

328 The existence of the spiritual, non-corporeal beings that Sacred Scripture usually calls "angels" is a truth of faith. The witness of Scripture is as clear as the unanimity of Tradition.
Who are they?
329 St. Augustine says: "'Angel' is the name of their office, not of their nature. If you seek the name of their nature, it is 'spirit'; if you seek the name of their office, it is 'angel': from what they are, 'spirit', from what they do, 'angel.'"188 With their whole beings the angels are servants *and messengers of God. Because they "always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven" they are the "mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word".
**330
* As purely *spiritual *creatures angels have intelligence and will: they are personal and immortal creatures, surpassing in perfection all visible creatures, as the splendor of their glory bears witness.

(underline is mine)


#10

[quote="jpjd, post:9, topic:181725"]
, surpassing in perfection all visible creatures

(underline is mine)

[/quote]

As usual, this only scratches the surface and doesn't fully address the question, nor is there debate weather they are superior to mortal, living beings. The question is not about this, it's about where we stand "after" we no longer reside in these mortal shells.


#11

Well, the Blessed Virgin is referred to as “Queen of the Angels.” But she’s a special case.


#12

[quote="Student09, post:11, topic:181725"]
Well, the Blessed Virgin is referred to as "Queen of the Angels." But she's a special case.

[/quote]

Last two posts are making this clear, I'm to learn some things here. Just before going to sleep last night, I opened up the bible to 2 Maccabees, it was just perfect for this topic, and many things going on in my spiritual life right now. The biggest points relevant to now and this topic were pointing out the invincible strength the Angels possessed that were helping the Jews with their battles. They didn't even call upon them by name, just asked God to send them an angel to defend them in battle, and that is what he did.

Then you bring up Mary, which has me thinking along my relationship with her, and how the angels are also "her" servants as well, and this goes back to a prayer I made to her just a short while ago, asking her to ask our Lord to send an angel to protect me. I didn't need her to ask our Lord, I could just ask her directly. :) This point also came to mind, with her "rank", and now the Apostles joining the ranks of the angels, why not be asking the apostles themselves to come to our aid, since they are now angelic beings? Makes you kind of go hmm... sometimes.


#13

We are human beings regardless of whether our soul is united with our body or not. Death does not change our status. Humans are lower than the angels whether our soul is united with our body on earth or whether (in death) we are disembodied souls in the spiritual world.


#14

[quote="jpjd, post:13, topic:181725"]
We are human beings regardless of whether our soul is united with our body or not. Death does not change our status. Humans are lower than the angels whether our soul is united with our body on earth or whether (in death) we are disembodied souls in the spiritual world.

[/quote]

Do you really want to live in eternity as exactly who you are? Honestly? This is what you are saying here, that would not be heaven, it would be hell for most of us. We do change when we die, you can't just become spirit, get a new spiritual body, and still have to face getting tempted and dragged down into hell, that would make our struggle in this life pointless.


#15

The question was about human souls. There is one human, body and soul, who is the most beautiful and unsurpassed by all of Creation: Our Blessed Lady the Mother of Jesus Christ and of HIs Church. She is my happy thought.

     Saints are angel-like but they are still  not angels.  Angels were created with infused knowledge, everything necessary for their Salvation.  We learn experiencialy gaining knowledge in increments throughout our lives (hopefully I think I am regressing). We are capable of repenting if we sin.  Angels are not once they make their evil choice.   If you mean can a human soul  perform  angelical-like tasks I believe that the Saints  demonstrate that.  

   We must never forget that  God's Angels really love us  and want us to go to  Heaven.

#16

[quote="prodigalson12, post:14, topic:181725"]
Do you really want to live in eternity as exactly who you are? Honestly? This is what you are saying here, that would not be heaven, it would be hell for most of us. We do change when we die, you can't just become spirit, get a new spiritual body, and still have to face getting tempted and dragged down into hell, that would make our struggle in this life pointless.

[/quote]

"You can't just become spirit.."
You don't become a spirit, prodigalson, you already are a spirit. Your soul is your spirit in your earthly body.

"...get a new spiritual body..."
In heaven we don't have a body. We are just a spirit -- a spaceless, partless being.

"...and still have to face getting tempted and dragged down into hell..."
Once we are in heaven, we are in union with God. There is no temptation, no sin, no chance of getting dragged down into hell. Once we are in heaven, we are there for eternity.


#17

It is, but it's not all that we are in the here and now, that is what makes us different as beings. We are caught between both sides at the same time due to the earthly bodies, this is kind of like a seed state, where it's going to sprout forth and grow or wither. Does, the context of the human state elude you some how and you managed to rise up above it? We can have faith, we can believe, we can do and act, but we cannot deny that we still are human, mortal, in this state of being, and it's loss would significantly change how we react, within the context of our understanding, the world around us. In our minds, we would be limited entirely because in our own current thinking, of this tangible world, and the things that go on within it.


#18

What matters is, are we in a state of grace? That is what allows us to live in heaven with God. Our finite understanding and human-ness will still be a part of us, but remember that our venial sins and imperfections will be purified in purgatory. We will be joined to the Trinity in the Beautific Vision, and we will see God face-to-face. We will know Love, Truth, Goodness, everything that God is.

The point is, we don’t become different beings or even just different, other than the purified selves that we are. To answer the OP, in heaven we are human, spiritual souls, not angels; and humans are lower than angels.


#19

[quote="prodigalson12, post:12, topic:181725"]
I didn't need her to ask our Lord, I could just ask her directly. :) This point also came to mind, with her "rank", and now the Apostles joining the ranks of the angels, why not be asking the apostles themselves to come to our aid, since they are now angelic beings? Makes you kind of go hmm... sometimes.

[/quote]

Everything the angels, apostles or saints do in Heaven is done according to God's will and in His power. You don't bypass God by going to one of the saints. Whenever you ask something of them, they will always go to God with it and if it is His will, they will pray for it and He will answer their prayers.

Everything and everyone in Heaven works in very close unity. God is the master and author of all in Heaven. That is why we pray in the Lord's prayer, "thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven," because in Heaven it is perfectly and constantly done. There is no division from His will and His supremacy. Everything you ask of a saint or angel goes to God and every answer to every prayer comes from God.

God bless! :):thumbsup:

We're talking about states of nature. Sin is not a state of nature. It is a form of bondage that holds us back from being our true selves, the humanity God wants us to be. The human state of nature is lower than the angels, like the antelopes are below us. When we die, we are changed, but it isn't our state of nature that's changed, as I understand it. We remain human, but we become human as God wanted us to be, not as the Devil would have us. We are changed to become perfectly human, and more than that, we are glorified in Christ's Body.

I sometimes think about the fact that the angels are ranked higher than us and consider how they serve us hand and foot throughout our earthly lives. They are more glorious than we are, yet they behave as our servants. Then I remember what Jesus said, "He who would be greatest among you must be the servant of all." The angels are greater than us, so they serve us. That is part of what makes them greater than us, their joyful willingness to serve and do God's will.


#20

[quote="prodigalson12, post:14, topic:181725"]
We do change when we die, you can't just become spirit, get a new spiritual body, and still have to face getting tempted and dragged down into hell, that would make our struggle in this life pointless.

[/quote]

That's what Purgatory is for! :yup:

Unless of course we are purified completely in this life.


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