Question About the Novus Ordo

Since so many people on these forums have asked why traditional Catholics go to Tridentine Masses (and we’ve given lots of reasons),I thought it might be nice to know why a Catholic would go to the Novus Ordo Mass vs a Tridentine Mass?

Is it because you don’t understand Latin? Or is it because you don’t want to learn Latin? Or is it because you like all the new music and the English paraphrase of the Latin in the Novus Ordo? Do you find the homilies more orthodox? Are the people more reverent?

[quote=SFH]Is it because you don’t understand Latin? Or is it because you don’t want to learn Latin? Or is it because you like all the new music and the English paraphrase of the Latin in the Novus Ordo? Do you find the homilies more orthodox? Are the people more reverent?
[/quote]

I have one very simple reason that I have explained before. When I go to the Tridentine I am often out in the vestibule with my little, LOUD, jabbering baby. There are many of us out there. I, unless I’m really good at counting the bells which is hardly ever the case since I’m too busy hog-tying my bundle of joy, often completely miss the Consecration. We have not view to the altar from the vestibule. I don’t want to miss that for the world so for at least the next few years of motherhood, I’ll be at the Novus Ordo.

My Novus Ordo is actually in Latin so it isn’t the Latin. Our homilies and laity are as equally orthodox as the Tridentine at our parish. It is simply my preference to know when the greatest miracle of our Faith occurs. This is far easier for me with the audible canon.

To answer the question, some people are drawn to the NO Mass, because they find all the pomp and circumstance of the tridentine distracting. I have attended a tridentine Mass once, and I enjoyed it very much. However, I also love the NO Mass. The Mass is the Mass. It doesn’t matter in which rite it is celebrated. The point of the Mass is Jesus, not what we find pretty.

Yours in Christ,
Thursday

I go because it is the normative Mass of the Church. I read, write and speak Latin so that isn’t an issue. I was raised with the Tridentine Mass so I do know it (quite well, in fact). I also serve the Melkite Greek Catholic Church and attend the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil, St. John Chrysostom and, as appropriate, that of St. James. Each feeds me in a different way.

Deacon Ed

It’s because I’m stupid and too lazy to learn latin. :stuck_out_tongue: Sorry, it had to be said. I agree, you might try phrasing things just a little more politely. In my area the only TLM offered is by the SSPX and I won’t associate with a schismatic group. Oh, that and I love my parish, the reverance our English NO is celebrated is amazing. We hear thought provoking, great homilies every week and for the most part the people are very reverant.

The English mass is what is said in the parish where I live, if the church said Latin mass there, that would be fine as well.

To drive across town, and across the river to attend mass said by a priest and attended by people I never see during the rest of the week, just seems like something I wouldn’t be interested in doing.

There just is a lot to say for attending mass in the community where you spend the other 6 days of the week.

The only TLM in my area is a low mass. I’ve been a few times and did not care for it at all. I walked out of Mass feeling like I hadn’t been in a church service. Noone seemed to follow the Mass. Everyone said prayers on their own, mostly the rosary, which was quite distracting, since I was trying to follow the missal. From the sounds of it, I may like a TLM high Mass, but I would have to drive 2 hours for it. I recently discovered a Latin NO Mass within about 30 minute drive, and I may check that out. I really prefer the Liturgy of St John Crysostom. When I attend a NO Mass, I prefer the weekday or the 6am Sunday Mass, since my church has a retired opera singer as the choir leader and she always chooses very difficult music to for the congregation to sing.

SAHmommy

I attend the Mass in my parish, because that is the parish community I belong to and we worship together in the normative rite of the Church. I am not smarter or better or more theologically correct than the Church who gave us the Mass, and I am not the pastor, who is the liturgist of the parish, so I am not the one designated by the Vatican to decide how Mass will be celebrated in my parish. So I participate in Mass with my fellow parishioners in the manner prescribed by the Church, and focus on the miracle of the altar, not the peripherals like language, posture and music.

[quote=aurora77]It’s because I’m stupid and too lazy to learn latin. :stuck_out_tongue: Sorry, it had to be said. I agree, you might try phrasing things just a little more politely. In my area the only TLM offered is by the SSPX and I won’t associate with a schismatic group. Oh, that and I love my parish, the reverance our English NO is celebrated is amazing. We hear thought provoking, great homilies every week and for the most part the people are very reverant.
[/quote]

Come, come, now. This website is full of threads by Catholics who attend the Novus Ordo asking traditional Catholics why they attend the Tridentine Mass. In many cases, the implication is that the traditional Catholics are some sort of loose cannon or wing nut.

Well I say, let’s put the shoe on the other foot. How does it make you feel when people ask you why you go to the Novus Ordo?

Judging from the responses on this thread, I take it that you don’t appreciate the implication behind the question either!

I attend the Mass of Paul VI because it is the normative Mass of the Church and it is the liturgy which was there when I converted. I’m generally sympathetic to those who desire the TLM (until they start running down the Pauline Mass, that is) because I would really hate it if someone came in and started tinkering with “my” Mass. I’m not a progressive, this is simply “home” to me. I don’t want it to go any further, ie, no gender neutral language, no “relevant” music, no liturgical dance, etc., but I also don’t want it to normatively go backwards (in time, not quality…eveyone keep their transmissions in neutral). I know the responses by heart and I don’t have to follow in a missalette (I don’t even like to use the missalettes for following the readings, prefering simply to listen). I could learn the responses in Latin, but I don’t speak Latin and it is not native to me. I see nothing at all wrong with the Mass in the vernacular in principal (and I’m sure we will get these translation issues straightened out in time) and I like the Mass in the vernacular specifically. I also do not like the silent canon at all (I’ve been to one TLM and it left me cold). I don’t care much one way or the other if the Mass is offered ad orientum or ad populum, I just want it offered reverently, the priest setting aside the temptation to stamp his own ego all over it. I like very little of the new music, but that’s true of my taste in music in general, either sacred or secular. I prefer the austere lines of the vestments in a Pauline Mass, though I wish they used richer fabrics, and I don’t like the lace or the sheer albs (or whatever you call them) that sometimes feature in the TLM.

[quote=SFH]Come, come, now. This website is full of threads by Catholics who attend the Novus Ordo asking traditional Catholics why they attend the Tridentine Mass. In many cases, the implication is that the traditional Catholics are some sort of loose cannon or wing nut.

Well I say, let’s put the shoe on the other foot. How does it make you feel when people ask you why you go to the Novus Ordo?

Judging from the responses on this thread, I take it that you don’t appreciate the implication behind the question either!
[/quote]

Actually, that’s not proportionately (thus, neither is it remotely) true, if you do a simple search of the threads. There is a current thread by Lux et Veritas asking why those who attend the TLM do so, but she is herself a “traditional” Catholic (I consider myself a traditional Catholic because I’m a Catholic and the Catholic Church is steeped in tradition. Usually I would not use an adjective, as I think “Catholic” should be sufficient). There’s lots of threads about the SSPX, but that’s usually some SSPX sympathizer who’s whaling on the “the SSPX is NOT in schism!” dead horse, and those who have to once again point out that, yes, in point of historical fact, they are in schism.

I was only joking about the Latin thing, hence the smiley. It was funny in my head, apparently not in writing. No one should be criticizing another’s preference for the Mass, the NO or the TLM (as long as those reasons are valid and are not done for schismatic reasons) , those who do are just rude and should be ignored.

Because my wonderful Pastor gives us an Historically Catholic (pre-1970) NO. It’s is unbelievably beautiful and just what I grew up with. I believe that if many of the TLM people saw a traditional NO done without any innovations, they would be just as happy to stay there.

He also celebrates the TLM down in the hood. Between the neighborhood of the church it is in and the ages of my children, the TLM is right out.

I have a question. Why do we always have to pit one Mass over the other? Why can’t we just have a preference?

I’ve told this little story before but our very holy priest who got the Indult for our church said to stay far away from anyone who said that one Mass was better than another. It one thing to prefer one Mass over the other and quite another to think that one Mass is better than another.

I’ve never been to the Tridentine mass only viewed videos or read accounts on the 'net. I like (some) of the ceremonial, the acts of reverence but I would prefer if the priest would say some of the prayers, especially the Canon, aloud. I know some deeply spritual people find the silent Canon very beneficial to their prayer but that doesn’t really work for me. Also, I’m not fond of the idea of the priest reciting the ordinary silently and then sitting down or continuing with the mass, at High Mass, while the choir sings it. Latin doesn’t figure into it at all (actually I like a Mass with Latin), though I believe that (proper) vernacular transalations are more beneficial to most, especially in my corner of the world. I personally prefer ad Orientum masses. One of the things I appreciate about the Missal of 1970 is the directive to face the congregation for the readings. I know many people say that the readings are a form of prayer to God, but they are also for our benefit and edification.

[quote=JKirkLVNV]I prefer the austere lines of the vestments in a Pauline Mass
[/quote]

A holdover from the Carmelites?

I grew up with the TLM and attended a Catholic school where the mass was part of our daily schedule, so I had more than ample exposure to them. Not only exposure to the mass, but solid teaching where the Baltimore Catechism had to be memorized.

With all that background and doctrinal formation, it did not impart to me a relationship with Christ Jesus … not until I reached my 30’s and had a conversion. At that time, all the memorization came back to mind and I fully loved these truths of my faith, but I had to re-examine them in light of my new faith experience. Scripture took on a vital importance, as well as weekly confession, daily prayer and spiritual reading … and I did not do these things because of homilies preaching about sin! No, it was the interior grace of the Holy Spirit who gives us a new mind and new heart.

Coincidentally, the new changes in the Mass were being adopted about the same time as my return to the church, but I did not find them difficult or distasteful to my previous form of daily worship. In fact, I loved them, and do to this day! As a revert to my faith, the ability to hear and understand the beautiful words of the mass was a true gift from God. It is also important to me that I can now participate fully rather than passively watch the priest, while my mind wandered, as before.

As you can imagine, a revert is usually exceptionally loyal to the magisterium, so therefore, my conscience will always adhere to whatever is promulgated by Holy Mother Church. That includes the mass in its present “new” form, and should it ever be changed in the future, I will assent fully, because the essentials will never change, only the accidents.

Some of the responders so far have felt the importance of being part of the local worshipping community. I agree wholeheartedly, for when God formed the ancient Israelites in worship, it was as a community whom God intended to become one people. Fractionalizing is not His vision for unity, nor was it Christ’s when He formed the apostles. The Church’s normative liturgy is what it is, and those who splinter off with desires for the old ways are somewhat like those ancient grumblers who longed for a return to Egypt, IMO.

There’s an old saying, there’s no place like home. Whenever I visit a church while traveling, I feel connected mystically with the Body of Christ, but I feel a distinct separateness from my own faith community with whom I am bonded physically. The epistle of James is so rich with the mandate to become physically available to assisting one another. It is not enough to mystically pray for them.
Carole

[quote=AJV]I’ve never been to the Tridentine mass only viewed videos or read accounts on the 'net. I like (some) of the ceremonial, the acts of reverence but I would prefer if the priest would say some of the prayers, especially the Canon, aloud. I know some deeply spritual people find the silent Canon very beneficial to their prayer but that doesn’t really work for me. Also, I’m not fond of the idea of the priest reciting the ordinary silently and then sitting down or continuing with the mass, at High Mass, while the choir sings it. Latin doesn’t figure into it at all (actually I like a Mass with Latin), though I believe that (proper) vernacular transalations are more beneficial to most, especially in my corner of the world. I personally prefer ad Orientum masses. One of the things I appreciate about the Missal of 1970 is the directive to face the congregation for the readings. I know many people say that the readings are a form of prayer to God, but they are also for our benefit and edification.

A holdover from the Carmelites?
[/quote]

LOL!!! Probably!

Joysong: how can you say something like finding a traditional Latin Mass distasteful because you think those attending are stating they wish to be left alone to worship as they desire? I am amazed at this expression of your thoughts and saddened. I hope you can work through the mental mirror of plucking the splinter out of your neighbors eye and removing the log in your own. Now before you say I misunderstand what you meant, think about the nouns, verbs and adjectives in your statement.

[quote=bear06]I have a question. Why do we always have to pit one Mass over the other? Why can’t we just have a preference?

I’ve told this little story before but our very holy priest who got the Indult for our church said to stay far away from anyone who said that one Mass was better than another. It one thing to prefer one Mass over the other and quite another to think that one Mass is better than another.
[/quote]

I personally think it has less to do with the Tridentine Mass vs. the Pauline Mass than it has to do with the whole pre-Vatican II Catholic culture as opposed to the whole post-Vatican II Catholic culture; the Mass is just a symptom of the larger problem. I could enumerate reasons and examples, but I’m sure we all know what they are.

In my neck of the woods, the nearest (approved) Tridentine Mass is an hour away. Unfortunately, so is the nearest normative Mass that is celebrated to my tastes (see netmilsmom’s post). If I had my way, I would drive ten hours to go to either one!

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.