Question about the Our Father

I thought the Our Father ended with;

For Thine is the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory, forever and ever, Amen

But in reference to Catholic prayers (such as the rosary) I’ve noticed it seems to end with “deliver us from evil” and omits that last part. Is it a Protestant addition to the prayer?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Prayer#Doxology

The doxology of the prayer is not contained in Luke’s version, nor is it present in the earliest manuscripts of Matthew,[37] representative of the Alexandrian text, although it is present in the manuscripts representative of the Byzantine text.[38] Most scholars do not consider it part of the original text of Matthew.[39][40] Modern translations generally omit it.[41]

…]

Latin Church Roman Catholics, as well as some Lutherans,[43] do not include the doxology when reciting the Lord’s Prayer; but it was added as an independent item, not as part of the Lord’s Prayer, in the Roman Rite Mass of 1970. The Anglican Book of Common Prayer sometimes gives the Lord’s Prayer with the doxology, sometimes without.[44] Most Protestants attach it to the Lord’s Prayer.

:thumbsup:

The Catholic church incorporates those lines in what the priest says in the Mass. The Protestants, who have eliminated priests and have an alternate liturgical practice for the pastor to use, incorporate this last line in the Lord’s prayer and that’s why Protestants say it and Catholics don’t. So, both churches use the entire text.

The Roman Catholic Churches I go to do not have this inclusion at the end of the prayer during Holy Mass and neither do the prayer books or literature contain this ending. Not any more, at least. :slight_smile:

It should still do, Friar, in the Communion Rite, but not as the continuation of the Our Father.

The Communion Rite.

Priest: At the Saviour’s command and formed by divine
teaching, we dare to say:

All: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name;
Thy kingdom come; thy will be done on earth as it is in
heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our
trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against
us. And lead us not into temptation but deliver us from
evil:

Priest: Deliver us, Lord, we pray, from every evil, graciously
grant peace in our days, that, sustained by the help of
your mercy, we may be always free from sin and safe
from all distress, as we await the blessed hope, the
coming of our Saviour, Jesus Christ.

All: For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours,
now and forever. Amen

Priest: Lord Jesus Christ, who said to your Apostles, Peace I
leave you, my peace I give you, look not on our sins,
but on the faith of your Church, and graciously grant
her peace and unity in accordance with your will.

People: Amen.

Priest: The peace of the Lord be with you always.

People: And with your spirit

Oops. Or can that be considered the same as the Protestant’s ending?

This subject is briefly discussed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 2760.

Good post:)

The key word is Liturgy when the doxology is used at the end of the prayer Jesus gave to us.

Not to be confused with private prayer when the Our Father is recited in the rosary. When used in liturgy the presence of God is being recognized on earth as it is in heaven, when we (all) give glory and honor to God, which is a liturgical heavenly scene recorded in the book of Revelation 5:13

13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:

“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”

The Mass encompasses much more than meets the natural senses, when the eternal presence of the Trinity is made present in space and time, we give honor and glory to God with all of heaven.

Yes, the text it is translating into English is identical.

Noted. Thanks. :thumbsup:

Hi, Sorry. Not “friar” but ‘friard’. It is a little misleading.

It is not said in any Churches which are Roman Catholic that I have attended over the last so many years. Maybe it got taken out when the older words to the liturgy were re-introduced. The words are an unncessary inclusion so I don’t add them in private either. We were told what to pray by the highest authority and so we pray as we were told. I am not against the addition especially, I just feel they are unncessary. I prefer keeping the original and more beautiful words where they belong, in Revelation. To reiterate: I have not heard the addition to the prayer in any Roman Catholic Church for many years, and I have been to many different Roman Catholic churches, in this time. If the RCC said we had to pray it, and people were praying it in church, I’d pray the words and mean them.

See post 5, friard.

The doxology is not said as part of the Our Father, you are correct.
But t is said very closely after.

Oh yes, well done. Sorry, you; sorry Reuben J!

It is funny, but without this thread, I wouldn’t have noticed. But it fits well where it is placed now. It is good to be made aware of such details because we can then be more involved with the celebration of the Mass. Good to know!

Many thanks to you and the OP!

:thumbsup::slight_smile:

It caught me out a couple of times when I was still a new Catholic. I just blundered on with the doxology when everybody else had shut up, simply as a matter of habit.

Well, you could still be a friar to me, as a private joke. :D. I have a friend who is a Capuchin priest of the Capuchin Franciscan Order who goes as a friar. People address him Friar instead of Father. Anyway, thanks for the correction.:slight_smile:

Agreed. The Our Father, the Lord’s prayer, is perhaps the most comprehensive prayer ever, where the element of praise, adoration, thanksgivings, petition and even deliverance are contained in such a few words even without the addition.

It is included (as pointed out), not immediately after the Our Father but as an acclamation response to the priest. The ending “For the Kingdom, the power and the glory are yours, now and for ever,” is to replace the “Amen” which is omitted in the Our Father proper.

Thus, as you rightly said, it is not necessary in the Our Father as “Amen” means just that, “so be it”.

Have a blessed day, friar, er, friard. :wink: :slight_smile: :wave:

Reuben

Don’t call me “friar” yet as I don’t want to be presumptious! :smiley: Actually, there is a french saint in history, or so I believe, who was called St. Friard (I probably learnt this from this forum after a similar conversation over my username). It would be amazing if his nickname was “chips”, or “fries”.

Thank you for the explanation. The funny thing is, that at Mass today, I did notice when saying the bit in question and it did make a difference in my response.

It is interesting that you are talking about Franciscan Capuchins. This is the third or fourth conversation I’ve had today about St. Francis. Is this in the U.K? Must be nice to have friends as Franciscans who can pray for you. There are so many different branches of the Franciscans - Renewals, Immaculates, Capuchins, Conventuals, Minors…etc…it is hard to know where to begin! If I know a friar is a priest I try and remember to say ‘Father’ but I don’t think Franciscans differentiate within Orders with the use of that title and I don’t think they’d take it badly if a non-religious were to address them as ‘friar’ if they were a priest-friar! Because essentially it’s true. And I don’t think are many people types less likely to take something the wrong way!

:thumbsup::slight_smile:

Thanks to all of you guys! :slight_smile:
I’m a cradle Christian, if not Catholic (baptized, blessed by our St. Pope John Paul II, then Protestant afterwards) and it amazes me how much I have to learn yet about “true” Christianity.

OP, we’re all sinners learning how to be open to being healed more and more. Far more important than knowing the history behind any prayer is to pray it! :thumbsup:

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