Question about the Trinity


#1

It’s rather complicated situation, but I’ll try to explain clearly, so bear with me.

My friend, Mary, is a youth leader for a few years. Recently she asked me for help because one of the junior, Michelle, asked her question about Trinity.

Michelle believes that the ruler of the universe is God the Father and Mother Mary. She believes that the Holy Spirit is from God the Father, but she doesn’t believe that Jesus is equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit, she believes that Jesus is just a human because he prayed to the Father all the time and look up to the Father. She believes that receiving Eucharist is for the forgiveness of sin.

Later I found out that Mary didn’t do a great job in explaining about it (she sent me her email to Michelle).

She stated that there was only 6 Sacraments; Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist, Reconciliation, Annointing, Matrimony/Holy Order. I asked her why and she told it was to simplify the explanation.
She stated that the Eucharist isn’t for the forgiveness of sin. It’s to unite us with Christ.
Then she explained about Reconciliation. She said that if A is quarreling with B, A will ask C to reconcile them. So she said priest is the mediator between God and human (not in persona Christi).
Lastly, she gave an explanation that made my jaw dropped to the floor. I know she just tried to just an illustration, but I don’t think it was good for a person who doesn’t know the real teaching of the Church.

After listening to the story, Michelle said “why should he die for me? I could handly my own sin.” :frowning:

The story is in the next post below.


#2

About how once upon a time, Jesus and the Devil had engaged in a negotiation.

Satan had boasted how he’d baited a trap in Eden’s garden and caught himself a world full of people.

“What are you going to do with all those people in your cage” Jesus wanted to know.

The Devil said, “I’m going to play with em’, tease em’. Make them marry and divorce and fight and kill one another. I’m going to teach them to throw bombs on one another. I’m going to have fun with them!”

Jesus said, “You can’t have fun with them forever. When you get tired of playing, what are you going to do with them?”

Satan said, “Damn them. DAMN THEM! They’re no good anyway! Damn them! Kill them!”

Jesus said, “How much do you want for them?”

Satan said, “You can’t be serious! If I sell them to you, they’ll just spit on you. They’ll hate you. They’ll hit you and beat you. They’ll hammer nails into you! They’re just NO GOOD I tell you, THEY’RE JUST NO GOOD!”

Jesus said, “How much?”

Satan said, “All of you tears and all of your blood. That’s the price.”

Jesus took the cage, paid the price and opened the door.

I tried to talk to Mary, but she won’t listen to me because she is very stubborn and always think that she’s right because she’s a leader. Besides that, she knew me before my conversion of heart; I was ignorant and lukewarm Catholic. So yes, first impression counts.

So it’s difficult situation. Any suggestion?


#3

If she knew you before your conversion and renewal, and therefore would not trust you on spiritual matters, why did she ask for your help on a doctrinal matter now?


#4

She asked me how to explain to her junior, but she doesn’t want to be critisize. I also don’t know the answer actually.

I** guess I didn’t make it clear, my question is, how can I explain about the Trinity? That the Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit are equal and Jesus isn’t just a messenger sent by God. Somehow, there’s an idea that son of God is inferior than the God Father. **


#5

Buy Mary a Catechism of the Catholic Church. Or link her to the Catechism online.

The Catechism section that explains the creed talks about the Trinity and explains Church teaching.

The other items you bring up are in the Catechism also.

Get a Catechism for yourself, and then offer to study it with Mary. Offer to study it with the entire youth group.

If she refuses, well, there’s not much you can do.


#6

Refer Mary and the youth to the parish priest.


#7

I agree that she needs to go through the CCC. I would also refer her to these scriptures.

Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever (Heb 13:8)- those attributes cannot be less than Divine. However, muslims also have a problem with the idea of a Divine Jesus praying to the Father, so I sort of understand where Michelle is coming from. What they don’t understand is that Jesus is fully human and fully Divine. He made Himself lower than the angels for a little while (Heb 2:5-9) and because He had bound Himself to human flesh “the Father was greater”. Why? ONLY because the Father was still in all His Glory. The Father is all Spirit, as Jesus was prior to the Incarnation, however Jesus willed to lower Himself as a human for the redemption of man. As to the issue of Jesus praying, Michelle needs to know that the reason Jesus prayed to the Father was to show us to pray. It’s the same with Jesus being baptized. Jesus certainly did not need to be baptized! Jesus could have simply mentally communicated with the Father, because in their Divinity they were always One. However, Jesus chose to verbally pray to the Father in order to teach us to pray.

Here is another link, and here, and here is a great blog.

Convince her of the truth of the Trinity first. Then she can be corrected on what the Eucharist is and what the Sacrament of Confession is (she seems to have those confused). And, it sounds as if she may be confused about Mary. Mary is the Queen Mother so to speak. She is who she is because of God’s Grace, but she is certainly NOT higher than Jesus. You won’t find that in scripture or the CCC!


#8

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