Question for atheists


#1

How is it possible that you guys enjoy SF novels in which there are robots and artificial inteligence, but you guys do not consider possible that we were created. Such a possibility is not even mentioned in the biology books, and the most of you don't bother. Do you think that a robot MUST have miles of wires and hundreds of microchips and MUST be a slave? Doesn't this sound ridiculous ?


#2

Threads on atheism are prohibited so this thread may get locked. You may need to learn how to ask this without referencing atheist.


#3

Indeed, this is a thread on atheism AND creationnism.

Born to be locked.


#4

Sorry. Can you guys, please rephrase it so it doesn’t sound bad?


#5

[quote="Ion, post:4, topic:313882"]
Sorry. Can you guys, please rephrase it so it doesn't sound bad?

[/quote]

I don't even know what you originally meant by

Do you think that a robot MUST have miles of wires and hundreds of microchips and MUST be a slave? Doesn't this sound ridiculous ?

The closest interesting discussion allowed here would be a debate on artificial intelligence. But you clearly want to debate evolution, and that won't happen, so I don't know. I'll take a shot.

Research on artificial intelligence is progressing quite fast. We already have virtual human brains with the capacities of 2-3 year old kids. They learn, and have abstract concepts. If you let a "blank" brain feed on youtube, it will learn to recognize objects in the videos, persons, etc, that you would show to it in real life. The more it saw it on youtube, the more it understand what it is. In fact, when scientist tried that, the brains were especially good at recognizing... cats :D

Anyway, computing powers is increasing too. It is not unreasonable to imagine full-grown human-like intelligence in a few decades. What is your opinion on this ? If an artificial human is indistinguishable from an actual human, what does it say about the soul ? Do you think a robot could be catholic ?


#6

Looks like a contradiction, to accept something as possible but to deny the real thing, no?


#7

The soul, which looks like "the main chip" but is far much more than a piece of equipment that can be easily replaced/discarded. I think is normal that we can't access directly our "main chip". Probably they will simulate a soul, and a catholic, but that is as far as they can go.
I think it is impossible for us to create real persons other way than naturally, because we can't make souls.


#8

[quote="Ion, post:7, topic:313882"]
The soul, which looks like "the main chip" but is far much more than a piece of equipment that can be easily replaced/discarded. I think is normal that we can't access directly our "main chip". Probably they will simulate a soul, and a catholic, but that is as far as they can go.
I think it is impossible for us to create real persons other way than naturally, because we can't make souls.

[/quote]

So, let's get crazy and imagine we can create a human body from scratch. His brain works, it is even identical to a human brain. Technically, there's no way to distinguish him from a human. The only difference is he wasn't born from a mother, but made in a machine.

Does he have a soul ?

If he has a kid with a human woman, does the kid have a soul ?


#9

Our modern science is much, much more fantastic than any SF; the world around us far exceeds our abilities to comprehend it. Things we can't even imagine are everywhere around us (What is light? Is it a wave or is it not?). So I just can't take myself to stop on one thing and proclaim it the absolute truth. "Who knows?" is all I can answer to any claim.
Everything is possible; perhaps your understanding of the world is the correct one indeed, or perhaps - do forgive me - the world has been created by a flying spaghetti monster, and we just stumbled on the truth and disregarded it.


#10

[quote="Fomalhaut, post:8, topic:313882"]
So, let's get crazy and imagine we can create a human body from scratch. His brain works, it is even identical to a human brain. Technically, there's no way to distinguish him from a human. The only difference is he wasn't born from a mother, but made in a machine.

Does he have a soul ?

If he has a kid with a human woman, does the kid have a soul ?

[/quote]

Now, if such a thing is possible, then it is scientifically possible, God exists.
If such a thing is impossible, then it is scientifically possible, God exists.
Either way God exists.


#11

[quote="Ion, post:10, topic:313882"]
Now, if such a thing is possible, then it is scientifically possible, God exists.
If such a thing is impossible, then it is scientifically possible, God exists.
Either way God exists.

[/quote]

I am not trying to disprove God here :confused:

I'm genuinely interested in what religious people think of the eventuality: would this artificial human be a soul-less creature ?


#12

It would not have a human soul, not of its own. A puppet displays animation, but only as an extension. Even AI would exist as a contingent entity. A good question is whether we can legitamately expect AI to surpass us in understanding, and also if, maybe, we confuse understanding with just the retention of knowlege? It is a very curious thing to see some very uneducated people procure great wisdom.


#13

robots evolved, nobody created them...


#14

[quote="CTuck, post:12, topic:313882"]
It is a very curious thing to see some very uneducated people procure great wisdom.

[/quote]

Knowledge and wisdom are two different things.


#15

[quote="Fomalhaut, post:11, topic:313882"]
I am not trying to disprove God here :confused:

I'm genuinely interested in what religious people think of the eventuality: would this artificial human be a soul-less creature ?

[/quote]

In Anthony Rizzi's book The Science Before Science, he argues that a soul would be instilled into the homunculus the very moment the last atom were put in place. I am not sure that I agree with him (it has been a few years since I last read the book, so his exact argument is escaping me), but I am not sure that I disagree with him either.

As per the homunculus having a child with a human woman, I would think that the child would have a soul. A soul is not passed from parent to child, it is given to the child from God.


#16

[quote="Paddy_Walker, post:13, topic:313882"]
robots evolved, nobody created them...

[/quote]

No one created them?

Well, those Stone Age humans must of had a ton of help from the robots that were around during their time period.


#17

[quote="Bballer32, post:16, topic:313882"]
No one created them?

Well, those Stone Age humans must of had a ton of help from the robots that were around during their time period.

[/quote]

pyramids? stonehenge?

how could robots have been created? these types of superstitions don't advance the science of robot evolution at all.


#18

Hold on hold on…

Are you saying that robots were not created by humans???


#19

[quote="Bballer32, post:18, topic:313882"]
Hold on hold on...

Are you saying that robots were not created by humans???

[/quote]

robots are a product of evolution and natural selection. the question of human intervention does not come into it. can you even prove there is a human?


#20

[quote="Paddy_Walker, post:19, topic:313882"]
robots are a product of evolution and natural selection. the question of human intervention does not come into it. can you even prove there is a human?

[/quote]

Can you prove that robots operated on their own? Robots that were created (yes created by Humans) could not operate on their own, but by human power and movement or steam, smoke, fire, etc., which all started from humans. Robots today operate off of electricity and computer programming.

lh4.ggpht.com/_hVOW2U7K4-M/TQ0XESDlwFI/AAAAAAABZS4/si8TsCUPbEQ/s800/rthergswd.jpg

How in the world would robots develop from evolution?


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