dcana. Where did anyone say “there is no such thing as a saint and we shouldn’t strive for or call people ‘holy’”? Did you the the whole of this short thread, with more fleshed out answers?
Sorry for the delay. To answer your question, dronald did. Here are two of his quotes:
“I think Holy is left out because we believe that God is holy and don’t want that as an attribute to a living human being, as we’re not holy by definition. Although, some of our works could be considered holy I suppose?”
“I think that godly is used because Christians want to emulate Christ as closely as possible. I think when someone says someone is godly they are speaking of the works of the person, and not the person themselves. Evangelicals are usually pretty afraid at offending God by making anything or anyone else out to be a ‘god’ in any way. It makes us all uncomfortable. So I think saying a person is ‘godly’ is saying that their works emulate that of Christ. Christ is God, therefore feeding the poor is a ‘godly’ thing to do.”
That is where someone said “there is no such thing as a saint and we shouldn’t strive for or call people ‘holy’”. Am I not correct in my assertion?
How can one be united with the All-Holy God in the Beatific Vision unless we ourselves become perfectly holy? Sin and God do not mix. That means that every vestige of sin and selfishness must be removed from us. For most of us, this happens in Purgatory, and it’s a painful thing to let go of these things, but that is precisely what Purgatory is for.
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
- 1 Peter 1:15
To take an extract from his quote above:
“Evangelicals are usually pretty afraid at offending God by making anything or anyone else out to be a ‘god’ in any way. It makes us all uncomfortable.”
Calling someone “holy” is not making them out to be a “god”. That’s preposterous. The Scriptures:
- Command us to be holy
- Forbid idolatry
Therefore, to be holy is not to become a “god” - which, if it were possible (of course, it isn’t), would demand worship - it is to become “like God” who is holy. Otherwise, Scripture would contradict itself.
Is God Love? Yes, and we are called to be loving. Actually loving, not evil but “doing works of love”, as if such a thing were possible. Sure, one can do “works of love” (e.g. volunteer at a soup kitchen) but if you have not love, it counts as nothing. One must possess love and have the intention of doing the act by that very love for an act to truly be an “act of love”.
Is God good? Yes, and we are called to be good. To actually become good, not evil but “doing works of goodness”, which is not actually possible, as above.
Is God perfect? Yes, and He calls us to be perfect: “Be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect.” Was Jesus not perfect? Yes, of course. But what does that mean? Does it not mean that “He was like us in all things, but did not sin?” He always did the will of the Father. So, in His humanity, He was actually holy. Of course, in His Divinity, He is the All-Holy God.
Is God holy? Yes, and we are called to be holy. To actually become holy, not evil but “doing works of holiness”, [size=2]which is not actually possible, as above.
If one is evil, i.e. a sinner with the guilt of mortal sin remaining on his soul, but for whatever reason is doing “works of goodness”, and then dies in that state, to Hell he shall go, because he is wicked. Actually wicked, as opposed to actually holy.
The Holy Spirit is called the “Sanctifier” because He sanctifies us, that is, He makes us holy, makes us saints.
To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints… [notice **to be[/size] saints, not “to do saintly works”]
- Romans 1:7
I think this profoundly unbiblical thinking (unbiblical in my opinion) stems from Martin Luther’s idea of justification. How when we are justified, we are not actually justified, but remain a “pile of dung” with Christ’s righteousness imputed to us. Catholics believe that when we are justified, we become justified, not “declared to be so”, by the action of the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.