Question for LITURGISTS! Mass Commons


#1

Is anyone else having a problem with their Worship Secretariat mandating and/or limiting the Mass settings that you may use in your diocese?
My husband is the Liturgist for our parish, and in our diocese, he is free to use what he deems appropriate, including many hymns and Masses that we have composed together. (Even our Bishop is pleased with the music) We have learned, however, from several other Liturgist friends, that they are being forced to choose Mass Commons from a list of 3-7, which in most cases, are considered to be of poor quality musically.
My husband has been a Liturgist for forty years, and finds it very disturbing, in view of the fact that the last five Pontiffs have ENCOURAGED the composition of NEW music for the Liturgy, including Masses, and that if Diocesan secretariats are allowed to continue this unprecedented practice, that new and better music for Divine Worship will cease to be composed. After all, what competent musician is prone to continue to write music that has no promise of use in the future? :shrug:


#2

If the instruction is coming from the Bishop, then it is best to just accept it. I can see some real advantages to having a limit on the Mass settings for the sake of uniformity and real disadvantages to constantly switching settings.


#3

A bishop is the Lord of his diocese. He has that authority. If the instruction is not given with the authority of the bishop, but some jobs-worth, then that's a whole different story.

There is a strong benefit to all catholics becoming familiar with the standard settings, both in the vernacular of their region, and the main parts of the mass and main responses in Latin.
We are strongly encourage to learn these by the Vatican.

There is also a problem with many hymnals in circulation containing hymns of dubious theology, and much of the beauty of the traditional hymns and settings of the Liturgy being displaced.
It may be that the bishop is attempting to redress the balance.

You can rest assured that this is not a big movement in the church, but it could certainly have a place if carried out the right way, and with proper instruction on why and for how long the restrictions are in place.


#4

The Bishop has final authority over matters liturgical in his diocese, and as such has the authority if he deems it appropriate to set instructions and directives which compliment or suppliment(never contradict) those found in the GIRM. If he wished to have a set number of Mass settings he is well within his rights to do so.


#5

[quote="Theophorus, post:4, topic:326718"]
The Bishop has final authority over matters liturgical in his diocese, and as such has the authority if he deems it appropriate to set instructions and directives which compliment or suppliment(never contradict) those found in the GIRM. If he wished to have a set number of Mass settings he is well within his rights to do so.

[/quote]

More so. He is explicitly expected to authorise (or reject) hymn-books and other music and liturgy materials for use in his diocese.
The GRIM makes it very clear that we should only use the vatican approved settings, or those approved by our own bishop.

Of course a bishop has the authority to revoke prior approvals.


#6

First of all, please thank your husband for me for his service to Church. We certainly need more faithful and talented musicians in our churches!

To address your question, the Bishop not only has the authority to do this, he would be derelict in his duty if he didn't oversee (bishop means 'overseer' after all) the settings being used for the Mass. Your husband may very well be choosing and composing great, faithful, prayerful Mass settings, but you certainly can imagine what the result would be if every parish began using whatever Mass settings they felt like. Besides, using a multiplicity of Mass settings reduces the 'Catholic' nature of our worship, in so far as each parish can become isolated liturgically and musically from the other parishes in the same diocese.


#7

I am not questioning the Bishop's authority. Everyone has to be obedient to the local Ordinary,however, this is still an unprecedented move. We used to have a blacklist of music that was forbidden for the use of Sacred Liturgy. We would welcome that again. IMPOSING a limit on Mass settings has NEVER been done in Roman CATHOLIC Liturgy.


#8

[quote="vindicated, post:7, topic:326718"]
I am not questioning the Bishop's authority. Everyone has to be obedient to the local Ordinary,however, this is still an unprecedented move. We used to have a blacklist of music that was forbidden for the use of Sacred Liturgy. We would welcome that again. IMPOSING a limit on Mass settings has NEVER been done in Roman CATHOLIC Liturgy.

[/quote]

1) With so many Mass settings out there and with liturgists composing their own settings how could a bishop possibly keep up with them all to know which ones to exclude? As the Mass is not for self-expression of a liturgist or of a particular parish, but is the public worship of the entire Church through time and space perhaps the bishop feels the only way to ensure a certain quality is to limit the number of Mass settings.

2) The bishop may want to have all parishes in the diocese celebrate the Mass in the same manner, emphasizing the 'Catholic' nature of the Mass.


#9

[quote="vindicated, post:1, topic:326718"]
he is free to use what he deems appropriate, including many hymns and Masses that we have composed together.

[/quote]

It's hard to comment without listening to your compositions. Could you provide some links?


#10

Never heard or a so-called "mass setting" until this morning. But I just googled it. [edited]


#11

After the introducition of the new missal our diocese asked all parishes to learn a couple of settings which can be used at large diocesean gatherings but each parish also can choose their own settings. Yes, there are many mass settings today but even with the latin mass there were also numerous settings. When I started accompanying our parish choir (late 70's) there were packed away in the music library at least a dozen different choral mass settings. Multiple mass setting are really new. Back in the day they were just sung by the choir instead of the congregation as we do today.


#12

[quote="Reborn2013, post:10, topic:326718"]
Never heard or a so-called "mass setting" until this morning. But I just googled it. [edited]

[/quote]

[edited] Are you aware that the Holy See has put out a Mass setting? Jubilate Dei. It is also translated in English for regional use. [edited]


#13

[quote="Reborn2013, post:10, topic:326718"]
Never heard or a so-called "mass setting" until this morning. But I just googled it. [edited]

[/quote]

I take it you've never heard of the Missa De Angelis,* Orbis Factor*, or *Cred*o III either then? [edited]


#14

[quote="vindicated, post:7, topic:326718"]
I am not questioning the Bishop's authority. Everyone has to be obedient to the local Ordinary,however, this is still an unprecedented move. We used to have a blacklist of music that was forbidden for the use of Sacred Liturgy. We would welcome that again. IMPOSING a limit on Mass settings has NEVER been done in Roman CATHOLIC Liturgy.

[/quote]

You know I was thinking about this today and Pope Pius X, and Pius XII, to name but two recent Popes, both issued guidance on how the ordinary of the Mass should be Sung, and how it should not be sung. We are not talking about dodgy hymns but settings of the gloria, credo etc. So I would say that there is historical precedent for this type of action


#15

[quote="Reborn2013, post:10, topic:326718"]
Never heard or a so-called "mass setting" until this morning. But I just googled it. [edited]

[/quote]

It is a pity that you know so little about the history of the Church. If you did, you would know that congregational mass settings go back centuries. It's also worth reading Papal statements on music in the liturgy.


#16

[quote="liturgyluver, post:15, topic:326718"]
It is a pity that you know so little about the history of the Church. If you did, you would know that congregational mass settings go back centuries. It's also worth reading Papal statements on music in the liturgy.

[/quote]

My question was directed toward other LITURGISTS. What is a "pity," is the lack of kindness and condescending attitudes from so many so-called CATHOLIC posters on this forum. We DO know the history of the Church and are well aware of Papal statements on liturgy. I find your remark offensive, and prefer that you not make any "assumptions" about what we do or do not know. It is also likely that my husband was playing for Mass before you were even born. Furthermore, for your info, he is a latinist and also plays a TLM every Sunday


#17

[quote="vindicated, post:16, topic:326718"]
My question was directed toward other LITURGISTS. What is a "pity," is the lack of kindness and condescending attitudes from so many so-called CATHOLIC posters on this forum. We DO know the history of the Church and are well aware of Papal statements on liturgy. I find your remark offensive, and prefer that you not make any "assumptions" about what we do or do not know. It is also likely that my husband was playing for Mass before you were even born. Furthermore, for your info, he is a latinist and also plays a TLM every Sunday

[/quote]

Liturgyluver was responding directly to a post by Reborn2013, who didn't know what a mass setting was until this morning and had a completly mixed up understanding of them. it wasn't a comment directed at either you or your husband.


#18

Okay. Sorry, getting a bit defensive!:o:D


#19

[quote="vindicated, post:16, topic:326718"]
My question was directed toward other LITURGISTS. What is a "pity," is the lack of kindness and condescending attitudes from so many so-called CATHOLIC posters on this forum. We DO know the history of the Church and are well aware of Papal statements on liturgy. I find your remark offensive, and prefer that you not make any "assumptions" about what we do or do not know. It is also likely that my husband was playing for Mass before you were even born. Furthermore, for your info, he is a latinist and also plays a TLM every Sunday

[/quote]

My apologies that I upset you - this was not my intention. As Theophorous kindly said, my comments were not directed at you in any way. I was responding to a specific post that was quite derrogatory about the mass, but even so I should have been more restrained in my reply. Peace.


#20

[quote="pnewton, post:12, topic:326718"]
[edited] Are you aware that the Holy See has put out a Mass setting? Jubilate Dei. It is also translated in English for regional use. [edited]

[/quote]

I'm interested in the Jubilate Dei and its English translation. Do you know where I can obtain that PNewton? thanks.


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