Question from a scrupulous: Would this be "suspicious"


#1

Hello all,

I hope I'm putting this in the right place. I tend to be scrupulous so I wanted a check.

Anyhow, I wanted to ask. Here's the basic situation: I'm a guy (17 yrs. old) and I have a friend who is a girl... Right now we're "just friends" I suppose I should say, to use the cliche', but I would say I have some feelings/ a crush for her.

Anyhow, I wanted to ask, based on this situation:

1) Would it be sin or near occasion of sin to be "alone" (in quotes) with her? That is, not part of a larger group, but still in relatively public areas (e.g. restaurant, park - even if it may be empty, walking through town, etc.) I don't think that would be sinful, but..

2) Now, to invite her into my home on a day when no one else is in (they may be out of town)? As I said, we are "just friends" but I think that this is getting closer towards the edge.... Of course, I wouldn't have any plans upfront about doing anything improper and I would try to fight the temptation I think, but....

3) That is also something that I have worried about in a hotel room or if the situation arose, my dorm room at college. If a friend(s) who is a girl(s) wants to come in, would it be wrong to let her/them in for something like a simple chat?

What is the general consensus of forum members? I'm interested as well in what parents might think is acceptable. What would you let your children do? Would a #2 situation be an essential "bad" or would it vary by situation?

Sorry if this sounds garbled....

Thanks in advance,

J. S. Sebastiano P.


#2

Not a wise thing to invite the girl into your room even if "only friends", and you admit to being attracted..so not only is it potentially an occasion of sin, being attracted, you are likely the more to be aware of the possibilities, and therefore may subject yourself to temptation in your mind if not in act.

As a sincere and responsible Catholic, hopefully you can meet her in congenial butmore populated areas, or for coffee etc, or with others around, but never be alone in a house or room...why place your soul and hers in any danger. If you figure it's okay when you are 'just friends' than it will be easy to continue being alone in a house or dorm room if you find she shares your attraction.

Be aware that we can easily deceive ourselves, for instance that there is nowhere else to chat...or I should because she'll think I'm weird if I don't', and you cannot be sure of her motivation if she insists on coming into your dorm or into a house alone...and to acquiesce would be irresponsible as a Catholic if you weren't firm about protecting your purity and hers.

You already know all this, I think.
God bless you, and if the girl is who God wishes you to become closer to, may it be so, but in all things may God help you to live a truly good Catholic life, and that you will find a good compatible Catholic girl and will share a holy courtship and a holy, faithful marriage.


#3

Agree 100% with Trishie. And, I wouldn't call the question "scrupulous". Your concerns are normal and valid.

God bless you :gopray:


#4

JSSebastianoP, I would talk to a priest first of all since this question is very closely tied to conscience.

Yes, there is an obligation to avoid occasions of sin. On the other hand, that obligation is not intended to turn us into a second Iran, pushing us into scrupulosity. And scrupulosity is another reason why you should definitely be talking to a priest (and not every priest has experience dealing with scrupulosity either) and not a bunch of random people who may have the same condition or, the opposite, fail to understand it (while it speaks well of you that you would seek advice from other people).

I don't believe any reasonable person would tell you that, say, having a coffee in a public place would by itself be an occasion of sin. (In theory, I could make up an example where it would be, but making up examples and fretting over them is something we want to avoid here.)

As for letting someone attractive in your room (which you definitely shouldn't be doing if you know that you will have trouble keeping your hands about yourself or keeping your mind away from imaginations of being sexual with that person, but in which I personally see no problem if no temptations arise), if you want to discuss it in detail and from the point of view of your specific situation, you really should do it with a priest and you should tell him you're scrupulous right away. My favourite kind of priest for such conversations is an old, experienced priest who likes people and is not given to unnecessarily harsh attitudes or dislike of women or people in general.


#5

Thanks all. :) I know I need to talk to, well, rather than a priest, I was thinking going for psychological help, but yeah - I do need help with scrupulosity.

Your answers are more or less what I figured, but I wanted to double check.

To clarify: in a private place: bad idea, but where it is in public areas is not necessarily an occasion for sin. So far it has been basically public areas, walking in the city, a train station, restaurant, and travelling by taxi maybe...

I am planning to meet her this Sunday to show her my hometown so we'll be walking and probably eating in town (including a park - I don't know how crowded it will be on a Sunday but it's still "public" enough, right? And would a movie theater would be bad?).

She asked to see my home (& parents), which I guess I could say is one of the things that spurred this post. However, my family may be out of town that weekend, so that can complicate the situation....

If they are out of town, would it be an okay idea to walk to my neighborhood and show her the outside of my house (where hypothetically we could be seen) but explain to her if she wants to go in that it could be a "near occasion for sin"? Although, she actually isn't Catholic (but I believe she understands that I am and I hope she'd understand if I explained), so I'd have to use different words, but I think y'all get the idea.

So, in short, I more or less have the basics here: being "just the to of us (i.e. not part of a larger group) would probably be okay in public places but not in private, right?

And of course, if my parents (or even my younger brother) were home, it would be okay to show her in, right?

Thanks again :)

Pax,

J. S. Sebastiano P.


#6

[quote="JSSebastianoP, post:5, topic:250761"]
Thanks all. :) I know I need to talk to, well, rather than a priest, I was thinking going for psychological help, but yeah - I do need help with scrupulosity.

[/quote]

I was meaning a priest to help you define healthy boundaries for you and to give you reliable spiritual advice for which he's qualified (and we here are not). He could tell you more about occasion of sin and how to determine it in your life.

[quote="JSSebastianoP, post:5, topic:250761"]
If they are out of town, would it be an okay idea to walk to my neighborhood and show her the outside of my house (where hypothetically we could be seen) but explain to her if she wants to go in that it could be a "near occasion for sin"? Although, she actually isn't Catholic (but I believe she understands that I am and I hope she'd understand if I explained), so I'd have to use different words, but I think y'all get the idea.

[/quote]

An occasion of sin (much less near occasion) is not magically created by walking into a house, as if stepping over the threshold triggered an occasion of sin. An occasion of sin can be compared to playing with fire and occurs when you're tempted so strongly that given your abilities to resist you will likely fail to resist. You really need to talk to a priest if you have this type of concerns. I know what I'm talking about. I've gone through my own share of problems with scrupulosity.


#7

[quote="JSSebastianoP, post:5, topic:250761"]
Thanks all. :) I know I need to talk to, well, rather than a priest, I was thinking going for psychological help, but yeah - I do need help with scrupulosity.

Your answers are more or less what I figured, but I wanted to double check.

To clarify: in a private place: bad idea, but where it is in public areas is not necessarily an occasion for sin. So far it has been basically public areas, walking in the city, a train station, restaurant, and travelling by taxi maybe...

I am planning to meet her this Sunday to show her my hometown so we'll be walking and probably eating in town (including a park - I don't know how crowded it will be on a Sunday but it's still "public" enough, right? And would a movie theater would be bad?).

She asked to see my home (& parents), which I guess I could say is one of the things that spurred this post. However, my family may be out of town that weekend, so that can complicate the situation....

If they are out of town, would it be an okay idea to walk to my neighborhood and show her the outside of my house (where hypothetically we could be seen) but explain to her if she wants to go in that it could be a "near occasion for sin"? Although, she actually isn't Catholic (but I believe she understands that I am and I hope she'd understand if I explained), so I'd have to use different words, but I think y'all get the idea.

So, in short, I more or less have the basics here: being "just the to of us (i.e. not part of a larger group) would probably be okay in public places but not in private, right?

And of course, if my parents (or even my younger brother) were home, it would be okay to show her in, right?

Thanks again :)

Pax,

J. S. Sebastiano P.

[/quote]

Going for a walk or to a movie is fine.

Being alone in a private situation depends on you. I've been alone with friends of the opposite gender and it was fine. As you are attracted to this person, just make sure that you stay in the "public" rooms of the house. You can't invite a friend to your hometown and not take her into your house! If a male friend did that, I would be so hurt.

Don't try the occasion of sin thing (even if it isn't in those words) as to many non Catholics, it will sound like you are either saying that she can't be trusted or that women in general are sinful. If the worst comes to the worst, just say that your parents don't allow you to take friends into your room or whatever.

As to your earlier question about what to do when you go to college, inviting female friends into your dormroom, that is ok if they are just friends.

You will need to learn how to resist temptations. If you want to ever have a relationship and get married, you will need to be alone with that person at times or you will never be able to have personal conversations. It is about having self control, you will have to learn to control the desires and be with that person. It is something you will need your whole life, even when married, as there are times that to give in to your desires would be selfish.

Please get help with the scrupulosity, it is a form of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Speak to your doctor, as you will need treatment for this, it is a medical problem. though also speak to a priest as you need help spiritually too.

And to end on a happy note, if she wants to see your hometown and meet your family, I think that sounds like she also has feelings for you. :)


#8

[quote="starsmurf, post:7, topic:250761"]
And to end on a happy note, if she wants to see your hometown and meet your family, I think that sounds like she also has feelings for you. :)

[/quote]

In my experience with women, that kind of questions generally means they're examining you as Mr Potential. ;)

(Even when they wouldn't admit. :D)


#9

[quote="JSSebastianoP, post:1, topic:250761"]
Hello all,

I hope I'm putting this in the right place. I tend to be scrupulous so I wanted a check.

Anyhow, I wanted to ask. Here's the basic situation: I'm a guy (17 yrs. old) and I have a friend who is a girl... Right now we're "just friends" I suppose I should say, to use the cliche', but I would say I have some feelings/ a crush for her.

Anyhow, I wanted to ask, based on this situation:

1) Would it be sin or near occasion of sin to be "alone" (in quotes) with her? That is, not part of a larger group, but still in relatively public areas (e.g. restaurant, park - even if it may be empty, walking through town, etc.) I don't think that would be sinful, but..

2) Now, to invite her into my home on a day when no one else is in (they may be out of town)? As I said, we are "just friends" but I think that this is getting closer towards the edge.... Of course, I wouldn't have any plans upfront about doing anything improper and I would try to fight the temptation I think, but....

3) That is also something that I have worried about in a hotel room or if the situation arose, my dorm room at college. If a friend(s) who is a girl(s) wants to come in, would it be wrong to let her/them in for something like a simple chat?

What is the general consensus of forum members? I'm interested as well in what parents might think is acceptable. What would you let your children do? Would a #2 situation be an essential "bad" or would it vary by situation?

Sorry if this sounds garbled....

Thanks in advance,

J. S. Sebastiano P.

[/quote]

You would want to protect her if she is your friend or potential girlfriend. You would want to keep other's opinion of her in a good light. You have self-control, that's me giving you the benefit of the doubt, so even if you have inclinations, you can choose to love the whole person and protect her from anything that would harm her...it doesn't matter the status of the relationship if you love her...as your neighbor.


#10

[quote="starsmurf, post:7, topic:250761"]
Going for a walk or to a movie is fine.

Being alone in a private situation depends on you. I've been alone with friends of the opposite gender and it was fine. As you are attracted to this person, just make sure that you stay in the "public" rooms of the house. You can't invite a friend to your hometown and not take her into your house! If a male friend did that, I would be so hurt.

Don't try the occasion of sin thing (even if it isn't in those words) as to many non Catholics, it will sound like you are either saying that she can't be trusted or that women in general are sinful. If the worst comes to the worst, just say that your parents don't allow you to take friends into your room or whatever.

As to your earlier question about what to do when you go to college, inviting female friends into your dormroom, that is ok if they are just friends.

You will need to learn how to resist temptations. If you want to ever have a relationship and get married, you will need to be alone with that person at times or you will never be able to have personal conversations. It is about having self control, you will have to learn to control the desires and be with that person. It is something you will need your whole life, even when married, as there are times that to give in to your desires would be selfish.

Please get help with the scrupulosity, it is a form of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Speak to your doctor, as you will need treatment for this, it is a medical problem. though also speak to a priest as you need help spiritually too.

And to end on a happy note, if she wants to see your hometown and meet your family, I think that sounds like she also has feelings for you. :)

[/quote]

Thank you for this answer! It really helps! :)

Pax,

J. S. Sebastiano P.


#11

[quote="chevalier, post:8, topic:250761"]
In my experience with women, that kind of questions generally means they're examining you as Mr Potential. ;)

(Even when they wouldn't admit. :D)

[/quote]

Agreed, since she quite possibly views you as such I'd be a little more cautious about things.

When you tell her that you love her it'd be a good idea to do it in an open space like a park, since there's bound to be a flush of hormones if she says I love you too, having the fact that other people can see you can help you stay in control over your emotions.


#12

[quote="Dakota_Roberts, post:11, topic:250761"]
Agreed, since she quite possibly views you as such I'd be a little more cautious about things.

When you tell her that you love her it'd be a good idea to do it in an open space like a park, since there's bound to be a flush of hormones if she says I love you too having the fact that other people can see you can help you stay in control over your emotions.

[/quote]

:o Maybe we're going too fast....

My family's moving to a different state, so I wanted to show her my hometown before I leave.... ;)

But anyhow, am I really near that stage yet? (we'll see what happens, right), but thank you so much for your advice! May I follow GOD'S will for me always.

:)

Pax,

J. S. Sebastiano P.


#13

[quote="JSSebastianoP, post:12, topic:250761"]
:o Maybe we're going too fast....

My family's moving to a different state, so I wanted to show her my hometown before I leave.... ;)

But anyhow, am I really near that stage yet? (we'll see what happens, right), but thank you so much for your advice! May I follow GOD'S will for me always.

:)

Pax,

J. S. Sebastiano P.

[/quote]

That's so adorable, best of wishes


#14

[quote="Edmundus1581, post:3, topic:250761"]
Agree 100% with Trishie. And, I wouldn't call the question "scrupulous". Your concerns are normal and valid.

God bless you :gopray:

[/quote]

:thumbsup:
I agree with most of the replies you recieved. Honestly, your questions did not seem scrupulous, and I would be careful since I have observed it is not uncommon for people to refer to taking care of little details of purity/chastity, or any other virtue, as being scrupulous. Striving for sanctity does include taking care of little things. Either way, it is good to find a good priest that can guide you.

Even the first question that seemed a little obvious to me at first (being alone in public being ok) you added the being alone in a park, and that could include a range of things from being alone in a secluded area/dark etc (and people have gotten in trouble chastity-wise that way), or just being out enjoying nature where it just happens to be that you are alone with the girl you are attracted to.

Here are some thoughts from St Josemaria regarding scruples
258http://www.escrivaworks.org/images/misc/pixtrans.gifGet rid of those scruples that deprive you of peace. — What takes away your peace of soul cannot come from God.

When God comes to you, you will feel the truth of those greetings: My peace I give to you..., peace I leave you..., peace be with you..., and you will feel it even in the midst of troubles.

262http://www.escrivaworks.org/images/misc/pixtrans.gifStop thinking of your fall. That thought, besides overwhelming and crushing you under its weight, may easily be an occasion of further temptations. Christ has forgiven you: forget the 'old self'.


#15

[quote="Dakota_Roberts, post:11, topic:250761"]
Agreed, since she quite possibly views you as such I'd be a little more cautious about things.

When you tell her that you love her it'd be a good idea to do it in an open space like a park, since there's bound to be a flush of hormones if she says I love you too, having the fact that other people can see you can help you stay in control over your emotions.

[/quote]

Good point. Plus, a public space removes some of the pressure to run away, feel cornered etc., and it's easier to deal with silence.

[quote="JSSebastianoP, post:12, topic:250761"]
But anyhow, am I really near that stage yet? (we'll see what happens, right)

[/quote]

Actually, you never really know for sure until it's too late (whether for yes or no). ;) I wouldn't rush it no matter what but it doesn't seem as if you were inclined to. :)


#16

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