Question of Assurance of Salvation

It seems to me, after having read on other boards, that there is disagreement between non-Catholics as to whether after having been “saved”, the person is then granted assurance of salvation. Some believe that it’s true, others believe, like us, that no one can take your salvation from you once given by God, but you can voluntarily give it up yourself. For the NC’s who do believe this (that we DON’T have assurance of eternal salvation), what constitutes “giving it up”? Does my question make sense? Catholics believe in the distinction between deadly and non-deadly sin (mortal, venial), and those classifications are clearly defined. But as far as I know, the doctrine of mortal sin is exclusively Catholic, correct?

I believe that high church Anglicans also make the distinction between mortal and venial sins. And I think most mainline Protestants churches do too, only they would say serious sins vs minor ones. I think that’s why you’ll hear so many people say they are a good person because they don’t kill people and don’t rob banks, but the concept of moral sin wasn’t meant to let anyone off the hook as if they never commit any sins unless it’s one of the “big” ones.

Are you talking about the ‘Once Saved Always Saved’ (or OSAS) belief?

[quote=Della]I believe that high church Anglicans also make the distinction between mortal and venial sins. And I think most mainline Protestants churches do too, only they would say serious sins vs minor ones. I think that’s why you’ll hear so many people say they are a good person because they don’t kill people and don’t rob banks, but the concept of moral sin wasn’t meant to let anyone off the hook as if they never commit any sins unless it’s one of the “big” ones.
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And I didn’t mean to imply that venial sins are “okay”, just that their consequences do not include a loss of salvation. I guess I was just looking to see if the Protestants who do believe that you can walk away from salvation have a criteria they can follow.

[quote=bookgirl]It seems to me, after having read on other boards, that there is disagreement between non-Catholics as to whether after having been “saved”, the person is then granted assurance of salvation. Some believe that it’s true, others believe, like us, that no one can take your salvation from you once given by God, but you can voluntarily give it up yourself. For the NC’s who do believe this (that we DON’T have assurance of eternal salvation), what constitutes “giving it up”? Does my question make sense? Catholics believe in the distinction between deadly and non-deadly sin (mortal, venial), and those classifications are clearly defined. But as far as I know, the doctrine of mortal sin is exclusively Catholic, correct?
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Hi bookgirl, I’ll give it a crack here. Personally, I’m torn on the issue. I see good scriptural support on both sides of the issue, and I don’t think both can be right, so there has to be some middle ground.

I’ll give you a little background on myself. I was raised in a Christian home and was saved when I was around 8 years old. I followed Jesus and all was well until around high school and shortly after. I went into the military, and tried to hang on, but having no spiritual support whatsoever, the weeds took over and I fell away.

But me being the bullheaded snot that I am, I couldn’t just leave it at falling into sin. I had to actually start reading and studying other religions. I told myself I was “searching” and watned to form my own beliefs. But in my rebellious nature, all that meant was doing exactly the opposite of what I had been taught as a child.

So I totally renounced my faith. Declared myself an athiest and denied that Jesus was the son of God, etc etc etc…I lived like this for a good part of 12 years. Doing about every type of self indulgance one can think of. But slowly and surely I was ruining my life.

Around a year ago, after my marriage was about to be ruined, have problems at work, etc…I knew I was ruining my life and doing things “my way” just wasn’t working. So when I was wandering around the mall one day, I stopped into a bookstore and bought a Bible, went home and started reading in John. After a co uple days of reading, I finally got up the courage to ask God for his forgiveness and tearfully threw myself at his feet.

So I got my life right with God. Got on a pattern of daily devotions and bible study. God has totally turned my life around and about 6 months ago, I knew he was calling me into full time ministry. So I"m studying ministry part time in school right now.

So in answer to the question. Was I really saved? Yes, there is no doubt in my mind I was saved as a child and through school.

Did I lose my salvation? Well, thats a tough one. I know that during that falling away time, I wanted nothing to do with God period, I didn’t want to hear it at all. I would ridicule and embarass anyone who tried to witness to me. I got angry at the mention of Church…perhaps it was the Holy Spirit trying to convict me…not sure

Either way, I was in a VERY dangerous place at that time. Part of me does think that had I died at that time, I would have been lost for sure. Another part thinks that I still had the Holy Spirit tugging away at me which is why I eventually came back.

The part that makes me wonder is that God gave us free will to choose him. Once we chosen him, it doesn’t seem like God’s nature to “force” us to stay with him if we say that we no longer want/need him or have anything to do with him. I don’t see scripture that would support God saying “You’ll be with me whether you like it or not!” So I’m kind of leaning in that direction.

If you want to know when that occurs, if that is the case, I think it likely occured the moment I said that Jesus was only a man and that God did not exist.

I just can’t think Him enough for his unending grace and forgiveness to take me back. :slight_smile:

I hope that helps.

Tim

[quote=bookgirl]It seems to me, after having read on other boards, that there is disagreement between non-Catholics as to whether after having been “saved”, the person is then granted assurance of salvation. Some believe that it’s true, others believe, like us, that no one can take your salvation from you once given by God, but you can voluntarily give it up yourself. For the NC’s who do believe this (that we DON’T have assurance of eternal salvation), what constitutes “giving it up”? Does my question make sense? Catholics believe in the distinction between deadly and non-deadly sin (mortal, venial), and those classifications are clearly defined. But as far as I know, the doctrine of mortal sin is exclusively Catholic, correct?
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This is an interesting question. It’s one I often try to draw some conclusion on. Catholics believe in, as you state, mortal sin. Protestants do not define sin quite this way. However when backed against a wall, when one questions a protestant about a “saved” person who commits a (what we would call mortal sin) sin that is clearly of grave nature, with full knowledge and consent, the protestant often says that this person probably had a “said” faith versus a true faith. Implying the individual was never really saved at all.

I’ve posed this question here before on these forums because as I see it, it almost seems a case of you say tomato and I say tom-ahhh-to.

[quote=Mijoy2]This is an interesting question. It’s one I often try to draw some conclusion on. Catholics believe in, as you state, mortal sin. Protestants do not define sin quite this way. However when backed against a wall, when one questions a protestant about a “saved” person who commits a (what we would call mortal sin) sin that is clearly of grave nature, with full knowledge and consent, the protestant often says that this person probably had a “said” faith versus a true faith. Implying the individual was never really saved at all.

I’ve posed this question here before on these forums because as I see it, it almost seems a case of you say tomato and I say tom-ahhh-to.
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But wouldn’t that constitute free will being taken from a person at the moment they were saved? If they were truly saved, then it’s not possible that they sin seriously after salvation?

[size=2]** Salvation dispute.? Assured Salvation, IF, IF, (IF ,WE ABIDE IN GODS WORD ) NOthing unclean or unholy may enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

If Faith is part of our Salvation.

And commandments are part of Faith.

How can we seperate them.?, since they are requirements for our Salvation.

Who are the elect.? Gods choosen people who follow and abide in his word. ******

Assured Salvation Sects or Eternal Security believers only seem to quote out of Romans, Gal, and Eph. which they interpret a couple of verses out of context claiming a saved or elect person does not need to abide in the commandments. They fail to interpret what Jesus taught Matt, Mark, Luke, John and Revelations.

Sara[/size]

[quote=bookgirl]But wouldn’t that constitute free will being taken from a person at the moment they were saved? If they were truly saved, then it’s not possible that they sin seriously after salvation?
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Good point. Seems there is a loop hole in thier salvation plan. Once saved always saved…unless.

[quote=bookgirl]For the NC’s who do believe this (that we DON’T have assurance of eternal salvation), what constitutes “giving it up”?
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It varies among Protestants. Anglicans hold to the doctrine of Venial and Mortal sin. Some Protestants think that any sin will separate you from heaven (until you confess to God. There is no priest). Some think that you are okay until you cross an imaginary line of sin where you can’t go back (from this point on, you are lost). But most that I know seem to hold to the OSAS theory. OSAS is the typical view of fundementalists, calvinists, and random others.

Did anyone even read my post? :confused:

[quote=roadrunner570]Did anyone even read my post? :confused:
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Well, I did, and it was a darn good one! I think that you very accurately summed up the whole subject…
There is a definite tension that exists between the 2 sides of the question–OSAS vs non-OSAS…
I think, myself, that although most Protestants verbally deny a belief in venial vs mortal sins, that on some level we recognize that something like that has to be going on in actual practice.
Mind you, there are all kinds of views on the subject, but I think that if we are honest, we have the feeling that–on the one hand–there are sins that don’t damage our relationship with God ( at least not horribly). On the other hand, there are those sins that are of such a nature that they simply are at odds with the whole idea of what the Christian life is supposed to be…

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