Question on Mary by Protestants-need help


#1

I have tried to explain the need that Mary being sinless was for Jesus sake. A pure vessel for Him to be carried in like the Ark of the Covenant. She was the one who gave Him His humanity so she needed to be given the grace of being conceived without sin. But the answer I always get back is why couldn’t Jesus be conceived sinless in His humanity instead of having to back it up a step to Mary’s conception. I seem to be at a loss in convincing them for the need of her sinless conception. Any help would be appreciated.


#2

Why did they go so out of their way to purify the Ark of the Covenant just to store a pair of stone tablets and why did God pop the guy who touched it?

Can’t understand how the Son of God could go into an Ark less holy than the old covenant’s ark.

Moreover they don’t know what the term “Full of Grace” means.

Immaculate Conception and Assumption and ECF on the Immaculate Conception might help you out some with that.

"
When discussing the Immaculate Conception, an implicit reference may be found in the angel’s greeting to Mary. The angel Gabriel said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you” (Luke 1:28). The phrase “full of grace” is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. It therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary.

The traditional translation, “full of grace,” is better than the one found in many recent versions of the New Testament, which give something along the lines of “highly favored daughter.” Mary was indeed a highly favored daughter of God, but the Greek implies more than that (and it never mentions the word for “daughter”). The grace given to Mary is at once permanent and of a unique kind. Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning “to fill or endow with grace.” Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit. In fact, Catholics hold, it extended over the whole of her life, from conception onward. She was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence. "
Pax tecum,


#3

Your idea that Mary was presanctified because she needed to be sinless as the Christ bearer is exactly the right answer. But I suggest you find some agreement with these people who are just being protestants before giving that same answer.

They may agree that our idea of Mary being sinless is possible if they start with something they can agree with and move further from that. One approach is to ask them gently where they think they will see Mary in heaven?

They usually must agree about old testaments persons who were taking into heaven directly. Mary as God bearer was given the most important task, could she also have been assumed into heaven, as we believe. If she was this important might she be one of the most important persons ever? It could be reasonable shown mary could have been, if they accept some old testament saints were taken bodily into heaven. The arc herself, isn’t she then potentially more important than any symbol accept perhaps the bible itself.

Once the theology of Mary opens up to them about her true position as God Bearer then the realization can be more easily accepted that she is presanctified. Could God’s own mother be ever eclipsed by any human? The woman who was mother to John and the apostles after Jesus, who could be greater to us but who is so humble?

Once they catch a glimse of her true glory, Jesus will introduce them to his Mother. May Christ guide and in-lighten you.

Brother John


#4

Mary was more than a vessel. She is the New Eve. To fulfull that role, she had to begin sinless as Eve. By not falling as Eve, through her savior Jesus Christ, she redeemed Woman. Not by her power, but by God. Mary was an essential part of God’s redemptive plan for mankind.


#5

Thanks for everyone’s help. I will try these answers. Sometimes I think the Lord’s answer about hard-heartness is never more evident when it comes to Protestants and Mary. I will at least try to plant a seed and let the Holy Spirit, the spouse of the Virgin Mary bring it to fruition. Thanks again for your help.


#6

I was thinking about this today, and I think you hit it right on the head at the end of your post there. Mary was not only the Mother of Jesus, she was also the SPOUSE of the Holy Spirit. Now, if she is God’s spouse, do you think God will tolerate another suitor?
I think not.


#7

catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp

Check the CA tracts before you get to the forums - they explain it very well.


#8

[quote=douayrheimsman]I have tried to explain the need that Mary being sinless was for Jesus sake. A pure vessel for Him to be carried in like the Ark of the Covenant. She was the one who gave Him His humanity so she needed to be given the grace of being conceived without sin. But the answer I always get back is why couldn’t Jesus be conceived sinless in His humanity instead of having to back it up a step to Mary’s conception. I seem to be at a loss in convincing them for the need of her sinless conception. Any help would be appreciated.
[/quote]

There was no absolute need for Mary to be conceived sinless for Jesus’ sake. This line of reasoning would imply that Mary’s mother must also have been sinless, and Mary’s grandmother, etc., which the Church does not teach. Also, the ark of the old covenant did not become holy when it was first constructed (its conception, if you will) (Exodus 37:1-9) but only later when Moses anointed it with oil (Exodus 40:3, 9, 16).

However, it was altogether fitting that Mary be sinless in order that the human race, which fell because of the disobedience of both a previously sinless man (Adam) and a previously sinless woman (Eve), could be restored to grace in a manner similar to its fall, through the obedience of both a sinless man (Jesus, the “last Adam” (1 Cor 15:45)) and a sinless woman (Mary, the last Eve) so that the


#9

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.