Question on Traditional Seminaries


#1

First off, by "Traditional" I mainly mean FSSP, ICKSP, and the others. Not SSPX.

At any rate, I have been posed with a problem recently. In school, my grade in Spanish (foreign language) has been plummeting. Although I am still trying, I have lost hop as the Quarter ends in a week and I have almost a 58% Average. I am just hoping to pass.

My Guidance Counselor has made me well aware of my options which are primarily:
- Take Spanish III and meet many requirements for plenty of Colleges (worse for GPA)
- Drop Spanish and take two half-year electives (better for GPA)

I intend to enter the Seminary after High School. I would really hate to have to take Spanish again, because I would probably need Summer School. Is a third year of a foreign language mandatory, reccomended, or unneeded for any or most traditional Seminaries?

Though I would really try to avoid the third year of Spanish, I would gladly go to Summer School day and night to help me with my Calling.

If you want me to explain my situation further, just ask.

In Christ,
Pius :knight1:


#2

I don 't know about the traditionalist seminaries but most seminaries in the US actually are teaching their students Spanish given that the Spanish population in the United States is growing in leaps and bounds. Knowing Spanish in some areas of the country is almost a necessity to minister to the parish population.


#3

[quote="Joannm, post:2, topic:232918"]
I don 't know about the traditionalist seminaries but most seminaries in the US actually are teaching their students Spanish given that the Spanish population in the United States is growing in leaps and bounds. Knowing Spanish in some areas of the country is almost a necessity to minister to the parish population.

[/quote]

Any word on English-speaking Seminaries in Europe? Again, mainly traditional Seminaries.

Pius :knight1:


#4

To be honest, I have no idea. But maybe you should try emailing the semanaries you are interested in. They are usually quick, I emailed an FSSP semanary and got a reply in a few days. They also should have the requirements on their websites. I know this could be opening up a huge can of worms here, but why not the SSPX, they are about as traditional as you can ask for?


#5

[quote="Crusading_Canuk, post:4, topic:232918"]
To be honest, I have no idea. But maybe you should try emailing the semanaries you are interested in. They are usually quick, I emailed an FSSP semanary and got a reply in a few days. They also should have the requirements on their websites. I know this could be opening up a huge can of worms here, but why not the SSPX, they are about as traditional as you can ask for?

[/quote]

First of all, thank you. I have found out the FSSP does NOT require three years of foreign language.

Also, SSPX is extremely controversial. In the minds of plenty of clergy (my own Parish Priest included) they are schismatic, if not heretical. Though this may not be my own opinion, I would much rather be safe than sorry. I once considered the Jesuits, however their willing abandonement of the cassock (based off of a conversation with a visiting Jesuit) ended that consideration.

Thank you.

Pius :knight1:


#6

[quote="Bl_Pope_Pius_IX, post:5, topic:232918"]
First of all, thank you. I have found out the FSSP does NOT require three years of foreign language.

Also, SSPX is extremely controversial. In the minds of plenty of clergy (my own Parish Priest included) they are schismatic, if not heretical. Though this may not be my own opinion, I would much rather be safe than sorry. I once considered the Jesuits, however their willing abandonement of the cassock (based off of a conversation with a visiting Jesuit) ended that consideration.

Thank you.

Pius :knight1:

[/quote]

I believe the process works a bit differently. First you find a bishop who accepts you as a seminarian......then HE decides which seminary HE will send you to. Not you pick a seminary that you want to go to........get a seminary education.....then shop around for a bishop.
Just saying......:shrug:


#7

[quote="ciero, post:6, topic:232918"]
I believe the process works a bit differently. First you find a bishop who accepts you as a seminarian......then HE decides which seminary HE will send you to. Not you pick a seminary that you want to go to........get a seminary education.....then shop around for a bishop.
Just saying......:shrug:

[/quote]

I don't intend to become a Diocesan Priest, and the FSSP was reccomended to me by my Theology teacher, so I must have a choice. The FSSP has two different Seminaries. One for English speakers, the other for French-German speakers. The latter is in Germany, the former is in Nebraska, USA.

I may be wrong, however I don't understand why the FSSP would be reccomended to me if I had no choice in it. Just saying :shrug:

Pius :knight1:


#8

I would also like to know the reason why you say "not SSPX". I can understand the reservations of some. If you exclude the SSPX then the only other traditional options are the Fraternity of St Peter and the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest. It really does depend on where you stand on the Mass issue mainly. It is the Mass that matters. I have personally spoken at length with over a dozen priests and a bishop of the SSPX and a few priests of the FSSP and you will not find one SSPX priest who would say the New Mass, wheras many FSSP priests have said the Novus Ordo Mass. Also, from my own experience (others will have their own) I find that SSPX priests are more outspoken about the issues with Vatican II and the new errors, whereas FSSP tend to be more reserved, from the pulpit at least, tend to tip toe around the Bishop. Also, some of the lecturers who teach in the FSSP would not be alowed the teach in the SSPX. As you probably can tell I attend an SSPX Mass, and have deceided to do so after a long time of study and prayer. The SSPX is not schismatic, as the liberals would suggest nor was Archbishop Lefebvre excommunicated, facts which I have debated with many priests and an auxillary bishop. Canon law proves this. I suggest you pray for enlightenment and find out what your stance is on the Mass and other issues, then you will know which seminary will form you best according to your position. I suggest you say a daily rosary (15 decades if possible) if you do not already do so. This is one of the best ways to ask for guidance - it worked for me.


#9

[quote="Iotaunum, post:8, topic:232918"]
I would also like to know the reason why you say "not SSPX". I can understand the reservations of some. If you exclude the SSPX then the only other traditional options are the Fraternity of St Peter and the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest. It really does depend on where you stand on the Mass issue mainly. It is the Mass that matters. I have personally spoken at length with over a dozen priests and a bishop of the SSPX and a few priests of the FSSP and you will not find one SSPX priest who would say the New Mass, wheras many FSSP priests have said the Novus Ordo Mass. Also, from my own experience (others will have their own) I find that SSPX priests are more outspoken about the issues with Vatican II and the new errors, whereas FSSP tend to be more reserved, from the pulpit at least, tend to tip toe around the Bishop. Also, some of the lecturers who teach in the FSSP would not be alowed the teach in the SSPX. As you probably can tell I attend an SSPX Mass, and have deceided to do so after a long time of study and prayer. The SSPX is not schismatic, as the liberals would suggest nor was Archbishop Lefebvre excommunicated, facts which I have debated with many priests and an auxillary bishop. Canon law proves this. I suggest you pray for enlightenment and find out what your stance is on the Mass and other issues, then you will know which seminary will form you best according to your position. I suggest you say a daily rosary (15 decades if possible) if you do not already do so. This is one of the best ways to ask for guidance - it worked for me.

[/quote]

Well, to be perfectly honest your comment made me more prone to the FSSP. The SSPX is outspoken on the matter of the Mass. And, at the expense of my own struggles, we need more Pro-Tridentine Mass Orders and Priests outside of the SSPX. Why not try to join FSSP to make them as outspoken, if not more so, than the SSPX? Just a thought.

At any rate, you have opened up a whole new outlook on the SSPX for me.

Pius :knight1:


#10

[quote="Bl_Pope_Pius_IX, post:7, topic:232918"]
I don't intend to become a Diocesan Priest, and the FSSP was reccomended to me by my Theology teacher, so I must have a choice. The FSSP has two different Seminaries. One for English speakers, the other for French-German speakers. The latter is in Germany, the former is in Nebraska, USA.

I may be wrong, however I don't understand why the FSSP would be reccomended to me if I had no choice in it. Just saying :shrug:

Pius :knight1:

[/quote]

Its the same though....you get accepted in the FSSP then your superiors send you to the seminary.


#11

[quote="Bl_Pope_Pius_IX, post:1, topic:232918"]
First off, by "Traditional" I mainly mean FSSP, ICKSP, and the others. Not SSPX.

At any rate, I have been posed with a problem recently. In school, my grade in Spanish (foreign language) has been plummeting. Although I am still trying, I have lost hop as the Quarter ends in a week and I have almost a 58% Average. I am just hoping to pass.

[/quote]

In any seminary you must learn Latin. How do you expect to learn Latin, if you have serious problem with Spanish II? You have to overcome your problem with new language. I your case I would take Spanish III, and would work hard to get at least passing grade.

As for the SSPX they have significantly lower requirements for their seminarians, but they also have larger failing rates either during the Seminary years and after the ordination than the others.

One more thing for you to consider. The theology is 7 years after high school but only 4 years after completing a 4 year college. If you are not admitted to the FSSP or Institute of Christ go to regular college and try again the theology after that. This consideration also recommends the Spanish III.


#12

[quote="Bl_Pope_Pius_IX, post:1, topic:232918"]
First off, by "Traditional" I mainly mean FSSP, ICKSP, and the others. Not SSPX.

At any rate, I have been posed with a problem recently. In school, my grade in Spanish (foreign language) has been plummeting. Although I am still trying, I have lost hop as the Quarter ends in a week and I have almost a 58% Average. I am just hoping to pass.

My Guidance Counselor has made me well aware of my options which are primarily:
- Take Spanish III and meet many requirements for plenty of Colleges (worse for GPA)
- Drop Spanish and take two half-year electives (better for GPA)

I intend to enter the Seminary after High School. I would really hate to have to take Spanish again, because I would probably need Summer School. Is a third year of a foreign language mandatory, reccomended, or unneeded for any or most traditional Seminaries?

Though I would really try to avoid the third year of Spanish, I would gladly go to Summer School day and night to help me with my Calling.

If you want me to explain my situation further, just ask.

In Christ,
Pius :knight1:

[/quote]

Young man, continue with your study of Spanish regardless of your circumstances. You must end that study with an appropriate sense of accomplishment even if you do not have a wonderful grade. Redouble your efforts and succeed. Otherwise, you will always look back on this as a lesson in the bad feeling that quitting and failing leaves you with, even if it does not lead to a lifetime of sorrow or anything as dramatic as that.

Your entire post reeks of excuse-making, and if you examine yourself, you will acknowledge that I am right (I happen to be a high school teacher). Should you go on to a traditional seminary, they will surely make you learn Latin, which is more difficult than Spanish. In addition, the life of a traditional priest is a life of discipline. Showing evidence of that discipline now will mean more to the people who would have charge over your formation than anything specific about Spanish as a subject of study.

And best wishes.


#13

[quote="Bl_Pope_Pius_IX, post:1, topic:232918"]
First off, by "Traditional" I mainly mean FSSP, ICKSP, and the others. Not SSPX.

[/quote]

My priest is FSSP and the seminary of Our Lady of Guadalupe (the FSSP's US seminary) is, as I understand, almost identical to the seminary of St. Thomas Aquinas (the SSPX's US seminary). I don't know much about the ICKSP, they are pretty small and, in the US, mostly in the midwest, but an ex-boyfriend of mine is going on a vocational retreat at their seminary in May.

I can't answer your question on Spanish. I can see how with many Spanish-speaking immigrants to the US (I assume you are in the US, sorry for my Americentricity) would make it helpful to learn Spanish.

Instead, here is a video of the FSSP seminary (part 1/3 -- see "Related Videos" for parts 2 and 3):
To God Who Giveth Joy to My Youth

Cute video of SSPX seminarians having fun:
Sports in the SSPX seminary

Documentary about the SSPX seminary from 1986 with Msgr. Lefebvre, (part 1/7):
Priests for Tomorrow


#14

[quote="Bl_Pope_Pius_IX, post:5, topic:232918"]
First of all, thank you. I have found out the FSSP does NOT require three years of foreign language.

Also, SSPX is extremely controversial. In the minds of plenty of clergy (my own Parish Priest included) they are schismatic, if not heretical. Though this may not be my own opinion, I would much rather be safe than sorry. I once considered the Jesuits, however their willing abandonement of the cassock (based off of a conversation with a visiting Jesuit) ended that consideration.

Thank you.

Pius :knight1:

[/quote]

Are you telling us that you wouldn't consider a Holy Order because of the cassock? An older priest (Jesuit BTW) once told me that the cassocks were expensive, hot, and they had a tendency to smell after a while! If you were to become a Jesuit, you would have a Bachelor's Degree first, then spend 7 years obtaining your doctorate or advanced degree in theology before you were ordained. During that time of formation you would work summers with Jesuit programs serving others.

Could you explain your obsession with the cassock? I teach high school and I'm interested in your reasons. Are you a junior right now? Many times, what we consider to be important factors when making a decision at age sixteen or seventeen don't seem so important at age 25! I wish you well and will be praying for you to remember those past perfect verbs!:rolleyes:


#15

[quote="kozlosap, post:14, topic:232918"]
Are you telling us that you wouldn't consider a Holy Order because of the cassock? An older priest (Jesuit BTW) once told me that the cassocks were expensive, hot, and they had a tendency to smell after a while! If you were to become a Jesuit, you would have a Bachelor's Degree first, then spend 7 years obtaining your doctorate or advanced degree in theology before you were ordained. During that time of formation you would work summers with Jesuit programs serving others.

Could you explain your obsession with the cassock? I teach high school and I'm interested in your reasons. Are you a junior right now? Many times, what we consider to be important factors when making a decision at age sixteen or seventeen don't seem so important at age 25! I wish you well and will be praying for you to remember those past perfect verbs!:rolleyes:

[/quote]

Sorry, I just managed to get on so I'll be answering/responding now.

Now I am not obsessed with the Cassock, and I didn't go into details about the conversation, but the Jesuit I spoke to WAS obsessed with the cassock. Or atleast, obsessed in destroying it. He said it looked satanic and wasn't even traditional. I simply couldn't agree. He also said that Priests who DO wear the Cassock should be "ordered" not to. That kind of turned me off from the Jesuits.

Not to mention, my desire for the Jesuits were further decreased when I told an Augustinian Priest that I wanted to join the Jesuits. He told me that, although they were started well, they may not have perfect intentions currently. Oh well. Still love Saint Ignatius and his Society though ;)

Oh and I am a Sophomore at the end of my third Quarter.

Pius :knight1:


#16

[quote="jbuck919, post:12, topic:232918"]
Young man, continue with your study of Spanish regardless of your circumstances. You must end that study with an appropriate sense of accomplishment even if you do not have a wonderful grade. Redouble your efforts and succeed. Otherwise, you will always look back on this as a lesson in the bad feeling that quitting and failing leaves you with, even if it does not lead to a lifetime of sorrow or anything as dramatic as that.

Your entire post reeks of excuse-making, and if you examine yourself, you will acknowledge that I am right (I happen to be a high school teacher). Should you go on to a traditional seminary, they will surely make you learn Latin, which is more difficult than Spanish. In addition, the life of a traditional priest is a life of discipline. Showing evidence of that discipline now will mean more to the people who would have charge over your formation than anything specific about Spanish as a subject of study.

And best wishes.

[/quote]

Thank you for your post.

Firstly, I did want to, in the start atleast, continue with Spanish. I still do find it productive and even interesting. However, allow me to explain further.

I first took Latin in Sixth Grade and Seventh Grade. However I was moved (not my decision, mind you) into Spanish. I had no choice to take Latin in High School as my school does not teach it. So, I was stuck in Spanish without wanting to be in Spanish.

Also, I really am not trying to make excuses. I am simply relaying information from my Guidance Counselor to this Forum. By the way, I am self teaching my self Latin. I have been using "A Primer of Ecclesiastical Latin" which has proven to be more than helpful.

I have also realized that if I do drop Spanish, then I can take a Theology Elective. "Moral Decisions in time of Hardships, I think it is. Granted, it is a half yer course, so I can likewise take another half year Theology Elective or a half year History elective.

As far as discipline, I agree. I am trying harder as time goes by.

I thank you for your post again.

Pius :knight1:


#17

[quote="laszlo, post:11, topic:232918"]
In any seminary you must learn Latin. How do you expect to learn Latin, if you have serious problem with Spanish II? You have to overcome your problem with new language. I your case I would take Spanish III, and would work hard to get at least passing grade.

As for the SSPX they have significantly lower requirements for their seminarians, but they also have larger failing rates either during the Seminary years and after the ordination than the others.

One more thing for you to consider. The theology is 7 years after high school but only 4 years after completing a 4 year college. If you are not admitted to the FSSP or Institute of Christ go to regular college and try again the theology after that. This consideration also recommends the Spanish III.

[/quote]

As I said previously (I think in my last post) I have been learning Latin on the side. However, I understand your point about overcoming the problem of Spanish.

I was unaware about the SSPX failing rates. I have seen the SSPX Priests in "action" so to speak. I thought they were elite.

Again, if I dont take Spanish this year, then I can take Theology Electives to fill that spot. Not only would that help my GPA, but it would also help my chances, I would think.

I will be praying on the decision, overall. However, there was recently a death in the extended family, so I have a Wake to go to, so if you have any further questions, I'll answer them after that.

In Christ,
Pius :knight1:


#18

[quote="Bl_Pope_Pius_IX, post:15, topic:232918"]
He said it looked satanic and wasn't even traditional. I simply couldn't agree. He also said that Priests who DO wear the Cassock should be "ordered" not to. That kind of turned me off from the Jesuits.

[/quote]

There are roughly 20,00 Jesuits in the world. That one of them made comments you disagree with shouldn't be grounds for dismissing all the others. By the way, the comments about the 'traditional' nature of the cassock are relative: when does 'tradition' begin? For the vast majority of the church's history, no-one wore cassocks. Is this really the issue upon which you want to decide your vocation?

(Just for the record, I'm not attacking cassocks, about which I'm entirely neutral, and I am generally in favour of religious garb, which I wear myself: I'm just addressing whether they are of central importance or not in making a life decision).

[quote="Bl_Pope_Pius_IX, post:15, topic:232918"]
Not to mention, my desire for the Jesuits were further decreased when I told an Augustinian Priest that I wanted to join the Jesuits. He told me that, although they were started well, they may not have perfect intentions currently.

[/quote]

And this seems like an even weaker reason: don't go to one religious institute looking for advice on another (!), go to the wellspring. If I were to tell you here that the Augustinians didn't have perfect intentions and that you should ignore everything they say, would you believe me?

(I'm not saying that, OK? I'm making the point that vague opinions like this should be disgregarded when you're making important decisions. God is the best authority to consult!).

[quote="Bl_Pope_Pius_IX, post:15, topic:232918"]
Oh well. Still love Saint Ignatius and his Society though ;)

[/quote]

Then perhaps you should give them another chance?

I'm not a Jesuit, for the record. I'm a Carmelite, although the priest who instructed me when I entered the Catholic church was a Jesuit, and was a thoroughly orthodox man, as were most of the Jesuits I've met.

You won''t find a religious institute or society without members with whom you disagree on some subjects. Be guided by God, not by the imperfections of human beings. Prayers and best wishes to you.


#19

I suppose you’re right. I suppose I am a bit biased on the Cassock as I mostly study later Church history where, well, most Priests wore Cassocks. The Cassock is not really the issue, I think. The issue is that the Priest went to such lengths to denounce an article of clothing. One that was custom, and still is, in some areas of our Church.

Well, its a bit hard since my Parish is Augustinian, and this was a trusted Priest who had given me advice on other issues before. I am more inclined to believe him. He also told me that the Jesuits (atleast in America) had drifted slowly from Orthodoxy, tradition, etc.

I have only met a few Jesuits in my time, all were visiting Priests. I am taught according to Jesuit text books. I am inspired by Jesuit Saints. However, I must pray long and hard for this. I am still open to the Jesuits, by the way.

Thank you.

Pius :knight1:


#20

[quote="Bl_Pope_Pius_IX, post:3, topic:232918"]
Any word on English-speaking Seminaries in Europe? Again, mainly traditional Seminaries.

Pius :knight1:

[/quote]

Don't get too excited--they outnumber us there, too. :D

Learning languages is an important part of most seminaries, from what I gather--even more so, though, for the societies using only the EO. Most of all, for the ICKSP, where the seminary education is conducted in French.

*Just take the Spanish--if you're a bright lad and seriously interested in a traditional seminary, its unlikely your GPA will even be an issue (given that you won't be applying to colleges).
*

Even if you do end up applying to colleges, you can always explain why you received a lower cumulative GPA in the admissions essay (i.e., that you were interested in becoming a Catholic priest, wanted to minister to Hispanic populations, &c.). Personally I would be quite impressed by this, it would make you stand out.

Its pretty much a win-win, if you take Spanish.


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