Question regarding the end of time


#1

Hello all, I have a question but I would like to preface with just a small bit about myself so that the question itself will be clearer.

I am a returning Catholic :slight_smile: after about 20 years away. Originally baptised and raised Catholic my mother chose to leave the Catholic Church when I was about 12-13 so I never quite made it to confirmation. She took us instead to a Baptist church which I attended (as required by her) until age 18 when I went out on my own and pretty much stopped attending any church. Though I never lost my faith in God, I just didn’t feel comfortable in any protestant church (as most of my central beliefs remained Catholic) and didn’t feel comfortable going to a Catholic church (since I felt I had ‘missed out’ on much and still didn’t feel comfortable going against my mother’s wishes). Now in my mid-30’s I’ve finally come full circle back to the Catholic Church where I find the teaching that I know is truth.

Since I did indeed ‘miss out’ on quite a lot of learning about God and the church during that time (and RCIA is still a few months off), I find that there are some aspects of the Catholic Church where I am not as knowledgable as I would prefer to be (though of course there is much that makes me say “Yes, exactly! I knew that already.” :)).

Since my wife has chosen to also go to Catholic Church now, though she was raised fully Baptist, she often asks me questions where she’s not familiar with the differences between the two and today the topic of end times (e.g. Rapture, Millenium etc…) came up. I found that I only possess partial knowledge on the topic from the Catholic side so I’m hoping that you great folks here can lay it out for me (and her also).

From the Baptist view, they anticipate the Second Coming and the Rapture of those who are saved. Then would come the seven year Tribulation followed by the millenial reign of Christ on Earth. A bit oversimplified (and of course there is a lot of disagreement on where the ‘millenium’ falls) but that’s the basic gist of how she understands things to come.

I understand that the Catholic Church teaches that it is currently the Millenial reign where Satan is chained (if I understand correctly) but am quite unsure as to the actual ‘chain of events’ to come that describe the end.

Thanks in advance for your answers, and for taking the time to help educate me and, through me, my wife also.


#2

The Catholic Church doesn’t believe in the Rapture. Books I suggest are “Will Catholics Be Left Behind” & “The Rapture Trap”…BUT, if you cannot afford those at the moment or want to start off slower, go, here to see if THIS may clear up SOME of the questions you have…

I will pray it does. God bless you & Mary keep you.:slight_smile:


#3

[quote=KWilliam]I understand that the Catholic Church teaches that it is currently the Millenial reign where Satan is chained (if I understand correctly) but am quite unsure as to the actual ‘chain of events’ to come that describe the end.

Thanks in advance for your answers, and for taking the time to help educate me and, through me, my wife also.
[/quote]

I wouldn’t use the Millenial Reign language to explain the Church’s position.

I, personally, think that the unchaining of the Man of Sin referred to in 2 Thessalonians has occurred, but my reasons strike hearers as being “lunatic,” so I won’t lay them out.

The sequence of events for the end is briefly referred to in the Apostles Creed – “from thence He will come to judge the living and the dead.” In Acts, the angels attending Jesus’ Ascension say that we will see Him come as the Apostles saw Him go, in the sky.

As a consequence, even many who are still alive at the end will see Him coming in the sky at the end. My suspicion is that space will be “warped” somehow, so that folks on both sides of the Earth will see the event at the same time. I believe that when Jesus says, in His Eschatalogical Homily in the Gospels, “Where the body is, there the eagles will fly,” He is saying that where the Real Presence of the Eucharist can be found – in the Catholic Church! – there humanity will see saved folks being “raptured” to salvation (even if some Purgatory time is owed). Those in a state of mortal sin will find contrition difficult if not impossible. Their instincts will be those of a rat when the cat comes to the door – panic! Jesus will destroy them and the world, the Specific and General Judgments will take place, the saved will be sent to Heaven or Purgatory (where the souls sent to Purgatory will suffer with gladness), and the damned will be deprived of grace, and condemned to that Bedlam we call Hell.

Welcome back home.


#4

KWilliam,
adstrinity has recommeded two fine resources. Both of them are quite helpful.

Another resource that you may find superior to either of them is the book or tape/CD set by David Currie.

http://www.saintjoe.com/images/productimages/large/7603.jpg

Rapture: Ruse or Reality the audio set may be found here:

audio version (6 tapes or CDs)

or:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1928832725.01.AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ.jpg

Rapture: The End-Times Error That Leaves the Bible Behind (Paperback) may be found here:

David Currie’s Book

Make sure to have a copy of scripture handy, because David Currie takes you through hundreds of passages that will shed a lot of light into the shadows you see now.

Read the collection of reviews for the book at the link provided above.

Peace in Christ…Salmon


#5

If you read only one more book on the Book of Revelations, it must be Scott Hahn’s The Lamb’s Supper . This book explain’s the early church’s definition of this book. As the previous poster stated, it is related to communion.

To go a little further though, and until you get the book, we are currently living in God’s Kingdom. Compared to the few 12 in the attic, the church is huge! It is a mighty kingdom by their standards. Also keep in mind, we are not on the same time clock as God. He told Adam and Eve a Redeemer would be sent to ammend for their sins and see how long it was till Jesus was born.

Did you notice the end of Gibson’s The Passion of Christ when Satan was screaming in an empty cavern? I beleive this was no accident, Mel is a devote Catholic. The Catholic view is that Jesus’ death and ressurection began his new Kingdom on Earth. Jesus at that time “Raptured” all of those souls waitting to enter Heaven, for the gates of Heaven were not open until then. By this I mean the people who were in a state of waitting like the Old Testiment Saints/Heros. Only the most perfect sacrifice could restore us with God, and he had to show us by his own body and blood. So back to the empty cavern, I think Mel was using this to show the belief of Satan being locked up for awhile.

I personally think this is the time inwhich Satan has been let loose for awhile, note all of the violence and destruction in the past century. Most of this is am interpretation, and no I am not getting any royalties of Hahn’s book. My priest told me to read it when I was discussing the last Revelations series on NBC. I found it quite an eye opener for a Cradle Catholic. No one ever showed me the book of Revelation or the Mass in this way. It will give you a new sense of spirituality in the mass.

Another book I keep promotting is Keatings Romanism verses Fundamentalism. It compares the two faiths, and explains their misconceptions. I read this not to beef up for debate, but to educate myself so I could understand their point. In the end I learned a lot of the why behind the what Catholics believe, something that was missing in my Catholic upbringing.

Good Luck and keep digging! You are on the right track!!!


#6

Thanks for the replies! I’ve checked out the online help mentioned and it clarified quite a deal for me, along with what’s been posted here.

Sorry if I used the term ‘millenial’ incorrectly in describing what I understand as the Catholic view of where we are now ;). And I do understand that it doesn’t necessarily mean a literal 1000 years.

In the Baptist faith the ‘end times’ are spoken of quite a bit so that is something that she has a clear view on (from the Baptist point of view) and I just hadn’t found anything that clearly showed the progression of events from the Catholic view (though I basically understood them). Since it is something that is emphasized in the faith my wife grew up in, it was naturally something she wanted clarified as she is exposed to more Catholic doctrine :slight_smile:


#7

Given such historical phenomena as the fall of the Roman Empire, the black death, the persecutions in the first 500 years, the fall of Jerusalem and the Diaspora, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the lack of access to the Gospel before the printing press, and the Protestant Reformation, not to mention WWII, I think the present troubles in the world are (in moments of optomism) of relative insignificance, or (in moments of pessimism) just a continuation. We need to take a look at the whole thing in its historical context.

My concern is that for great numbers of people who to believe in Rapture and End Times, it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. They see this as happening, they believe that they can do nothing about it-- that it is God’s will. :confused: :frowning: Prophecy, as in Jonah, exists as a warning, not as an absolute foretelling. It says “Unless you repent, and quit doing evil in this world, this will happen.” A prophet is a social reformer, not doom-and-gloom ego-tripper. If consequences of not listening need to be spelled out-------then those consequences need to be listed.

Abuse of world ecology is an example.


#8

If you don’t have one yet, get a copy of the Catechism…you can look up things (like end times) in the index. Some of it is slow going, but it holds the answers, and will help focus follow up questions.


#9

The Catholic church borrowed much of it’s final prophecy teachings from Augustine. So the church teaches that we are presently living in the millennium, the devil is bound and the church is the kingdom of God on earth. I personally don’t buy into it.
Some of the early church fathers were literalists like me, who believe the Kingdom of Christ is to come at his return and Christ will establish his reign upon the earth. Justin Martyr and Irenaeus held that this would begin in Jerusalem for a thousand years. None ever taught a pre trib rapture. But they did believe in a bodily resurrection where the dead would be raised to meet the Lord in the air at his return.

                        Catholics aren't into prophecy at all and I never heard a homily in my parish on any prophecy subject. Most homilies just dwell on the gospels of the bible. So one can make their own decision on this matter. But the church has already decreed what it believes on the matter. :)

#10

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