Questions about Mary and about heirarchy


In another thread this was stated:

Can someone provide citations to support or refute these ideas?


Since the Church’s hierarchy predates the feudalism of the middle ages, the statement is built on a false premise and is invalid.


What exactly is the question?


In reading SoCal’s post, I don’t have too much issue with it other than this particular portion.

I am also at a loss as to what hierarchy you think God designed. In Christianity, woman were priests for centuries, at least in Pauline Christianity. Our current male dominated heirarchy really dates from feudalism. An all male clergy was really the only practical way for the Church to maintain control of its massive land assets.

Seems a bit new agey to me. First of all, I’d love to see proof that there were “women priests for centuries” in the one, true, Apostolic Church. IOW, the burden of proof is on her/him, not anyone else, when making that claim.

Secondly, the “male dominated heirarchy” may have some strenghtening roots in feudalism, but that was not the reason for an all-male clergy. I believe, and could be wrong, that the main reason priests are men and not women is because of Tradition, specifically, Tradition tells us that since Jesus chose his first 12 Apostles as men, then every other preist after them (since they were the first priests) should be men. Why not, if it’s good enough for Jesus, why not us? Why be so rebellious?

Thirdly, and lastly, Jesus did INDEED set up a hierarchy in His Church, when He chose Peter to be the first Pope. If there is no heirarchy in the Church at all, then Matt 16:18 does not mean what we Catholics believe it means. Now, this may sound amusing to any Protestant lurker, but I’m not addressing the Protestant concerns here. I’m talking about what MAKES us Catholic, and one of those things is, that we believe Peter was the first SUPREME Pontiff. This obviously implies a hierarchy.

It comes down to this for me: The Church is not “opressing” women or “keeping them down” as some like to say (not that SoCal said that but others do), because while there are simply some things men can do that women can’t, there are some things WOMEN can do that MEN can’t.

It has nothing to do with “equal rights” or “feminism”; it has to do with reality.


I can’t find which Papal document it was now, but that Pope said very clearly that never was a women ordained in the Church. The most famous example, of “deaconesses”, concerns women who were not ordained but assisted int he baptism of females. This was also explained by the Pope.

I keep thinking it was a document references by Pope JP II in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, but I can’t find it!

I’ll keep looking for it…

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