Questions for any Protestants

Have you ever asked your Preacher why he cannot forgive sins in the name of God?

And why he gave this power to humans in the bible to forgive them in his name, which scripture states Priests have this power?

What I am asking why have they not claimed this Power Catholic Priests claim?

Lutherans do.

Jon

Anglicans do

I never would have asked my Protestant pastor that because I believed my sins were already forgiven by God. It never would have occurred to me to ask a human to forgive my sins when God had already done so by dying on the cross.

Some are orbiting more closely than others.

http://www.grandislandschools.org/webpages/yfantrazzo/imageGallery/ig295_planets_solarsystem_021.jpg

As for the Anglican communion, the Kuyper Belt is not shown on that diagram. :wink:

We’re not meant to be put on a diagram.:cool:

First of all Catholic priests don’t claim this power. The ability to forgive sins “persona Christi” is part of the priestly ordination and anointing of that office. A majority of Protestantism has s different view than the Catholic/Orthodox and including our Anglican and Lutheran friends that have already commented in that Protestantism believes in the priesthood of all believers, therefore the sacramental view of the priesthood is not found. Likewise, a majority of Protestantism emphasizes the believer one on one relationship with God. Considering these two views priesthood of all believers and non-sacrimental pastors and ministers, they do not believe and support the sacrament of confession. If one sins, they simple would say go to God and ask for forgiveness. The verses that mention Jesus breathing on the disciples to forgive sins etc are ignored.

Interesting question…

Indeed! You Mercurian Catholics are so very close to us Solar Lutherans. :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:

well it is easy-- one you understand the Gospel of Grace-

but many people are taught error- – and memorize dogma- doctrine- and religious tradition

as Saint Paul

1 Timothy 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some …

Now the Spirit says clearly that in the last times some people will abandon the faith … shall depart from the faith, listening to spirits of error and doctrines of demons; … who foretold that false prophets would arise and deceive many; or in some of … in later of paying says some Spirit spirits taught that The things times to will

and saint paul taught on the

“The Ministry of Reconciliation…The Ministry of Reconciliation.”

Many pastors and many preachers seem to be struggling and groping to find or form a clear statement and direction for their ministry. Perhaps we’ve asked the questions that need not to be asked, such as…what is the preacher’s mission?..what is the preacher’s priority?..because here it is to abundantly clear what the answer to those questions really is. In spite of the clarity with which Scripture preaches its message to us about the priority for our message, we have an almost endless variety of suggestions about methods and means and strategies and styles and approaches to ministry. And sometimes we can get caught up in that to the degree that we miss the main thing. The main thing is distinctively articulated in this passage.

In fact, it’s a very simple passage. It’s not a complex one. It’s not particularly difficult to interpret, to discern, or to apply. It is definitive in every sense. It lays down for us what the objective and goal and priority of our life and ministry has to be. It delineates for us our responsibility in the world before us, as we represent the Lord Jesus Christ and it does so in no uncertain terms.

Let me read to you this great text, and you follow along. Starting in verse 18. “Now all these things are from God who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ as though God were entreating through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”

and finally-- ctholics are taught on the Old testement – gifts of the spirit Isah 11;1-7–

which is the charastic of the massiah the Prophet–

and Saint Paul teaches and demenstrates-- the 9+ gifts of the Spirit with Born Again christians function in–

and finally as Saint Paul says-- when you come together (a church) assembly

1 Corinthians 14:26 Parallel: How is it then, brethren? when …

Whenever you come together, each one has a psalm, a teaching, … each one has a song, has a lesson, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation.

but the catholic church has invented a man made – ceremony – mass- that makes the claim you get special grace-- and – that or breaking of bread is “the real presence”

1Co 11:29 For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.
1Co 11:30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.

1Co 11:31 But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment.

1Co 11:32 When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.

Thankfully, I was wrong.
This passage above must be one of the most abused and misunderstood passages in the entire Bible.

It is regularly used to deny communion to those who need and it is frightening to 10 year olds.

As we will see, it is one of the most liberating scriptures in the Bible, yet many believers are condemned by it.

Doesn’t this seem a bit odd to you? After all, this passage was written by

the same apostle who said,

“there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.”

So what’s going on here? Did Paul have a change of heart? Is he now saying that God will condemn us if we partake of communion in an unworthy manner? No he is not.
For if we would judge (diakrino) ourselves, we should not be judged (krino).

But when we are judged (krino), we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned (katakrino) with the world. (KJV)

Mark 13:34: “For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left
his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and
commanded the porter to watch.”

He gave AUTHORITY to his servants and to
every man his work.

Authority means the right to command obedience, the right to
enforce obedience, and the right to act officially.

Christ had authority over
sickness and the devil. He had the right to command the sickness to leave and the
devil had to obey. He had the right to enforce obedience, and He had the right to
act in the official capacity as the Son of God.

Ah! So that’s where Solar Scriptura comes from… :p:D

:rotfl:

Not quite. Lutherans believe in the priesthood of all believers in the same way that Catholics do. This does not give license to any ol’ baptized layperson to administer the Sacraments. From the Augsburg Confession:
[INDENT]

Article XIV: Of Ecclesiastical Order.
Of Ecclesiastical Order they teach that no one should publicly teach in the Church or administer the Sacraments unless he be regularly called.

[/INDENT]
Now, Lutherans do differ from Rome as to how, exactly, a priest is “regularly called” and therefore able to administer the Sacraments, including Holy Absolution. As for the Anglicans, you’ll have to ask one. Or several. Best not to talk about “Protestants” as if they’re part of some capital-P church.

Again, from the AC:
[INDENT]

Article XI: Of Confession.
Of Confession they teach that Private Absolution ought to be retained in the churches, although in confession an enumeration of all sins is not necessary. For it is impossible according to the Psalm: Who can understand his errors?

[/INDENT]
[INDENT]

Article XXV: Of Confession.
Confession in the churches is not abolished among us; for it is not usual to give the body of the Lord, except to them that have been previously examined and absolved. And the people are most carefully taught concerning faith in the absolution, about which formerly there was profound silence. Our people are taught that they should highly prize the absolution, as being the voice of God, and pronounced by God’s command. The power of the Keys is set forth in its beauty and they are reminded what great consolation it brings to anxious consciences, also, that God requires faith to believe such absolution as a voice sounding from heaven, and that such faith in Christ truly obtains and receives the forgiveness of sins. Aforetime satisfactions were immoderately extolled; of faith and the merit of Christ and the righteousness of faith no mention was made; wherefore, on this point, our churches are by no means to be blamed. For this even our adversaries must needs concede to us that the doctrine concerning repentance has been most diligently treated and laid open by our teachers. But of Confession they teach that an enumeration of sins is not necessary, and that consciences be not burdened with anxiety to enumerate all sins, for it is impossible to recount all sins, as the Psalm 19:13 testifies: Who can understand his errors? Also Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful; who can know it? But if no sins were forgiven, except those that are recounted, consciences could never find peace; for very many sins they neither see nor can remember. The ancient writers also testify that an enumeration is not necessary. For in the Decrees, Chrysostom is quoted, who says thus: I say not to you that you should disclose yourself in public, nor that you accuse yourself before others, but I would have you obey the prophet who says: “Disclose thy way before God.” Therefore confess your sins before God, the true Judge, with prayer. Tell your errors, not with the tongue, but with the memory of your conscience, etc. And the Gloss (Of Repentance, Distinct. V, Cap. Consideret) admits that Confession is of human right only [not commanded by Scripture, but ordained by the Church]. Nevertheless, on account of the great benefit of absolution, and because it is otherwise useful to the conscience, Confession is retained among us.

[/INDENT]
…and from the Defense of the AC:
[INDENT]

Article XIII. (VII): Of the Number and Use of the Sacraments.
…If we call Sacraments rites which have the command of God, and to which the promise of grace has been added, it is easy to decide what are properly Sacraments. For rites instituted by men will not in this way be Sacraments properly so called. For it does not belong to human authority to promise grace. Therefore signs instituted without God’s command are not sure signs of grace, even though they perhaps instruct the rude [children or the uncultivated], or admonish as to something [as a painted cross]. Therefore Baptism, the Lord’s Supper, and Absolution, which is the Sacrament of Repentance, are truly Sacraments…

[/INDENT]

:rotfl:

I was not speaking about what Lutherans believe. You can do that well enough on your own. I was speaking about those Protestants that fall outside your world, evangelical and fundamentalist etc. They do not believe in a sacramental priesthood and emphasize the believers own relationship with God directly. I am not obviously now a Catholic agree with these views but Op did ask and is trying to understand different Protestant views and those are the ones she most likely will encounter that your Lutheran view which isn’t always shared by all Lutherans anyway.

And the Anglicans, motley as they are, fill all the spaces between the orbits.

From the very reformed 1552 Book of Common Prayer:

A generall confession, to be sayd of the whole congregacion after the minister, knelynge.

ALMIGHTY and most mercyfull father, we have erred and strayed from thy wayes, lyke lost shepe. We have folowed too much the devises and desyres of oure owne hearts. We have offended against thy holy lawes. We have left undone those things whiche we oughte to have done, and we have done those. thinges which we ought not to have done, and there is no health in us: but thou, O Lord, have mercy upon us miserable offendors. Spare thou them, O God, which confesse theyr faultes. Restore thou them that be penitent, according to thy promyses declared. unto mankynde, in Christe Jesu oure Lorde. And graunt, O most merciful father, for his sake, that we may hereafter live a godly, righteous, and sobre life, to the glory of thy holy name. Amen.

*The absolucion to be pronounced by the minister alone.
*
ALMIGHTY God, the father of oure Lord Jesus Christ, which desireth not the death of a synner, but rather that he maye turne from his wickedness and live: and hath geven power and commaundment to hys ministers, to declare and pronounce to his people, beinge penitent, the absolution and remission of their synnnes: he pardoneth and absolveth all them which truely repent, and unfeynedly believe his holy Gospel. Wherefore we beseche him to graunt us true repentaunce and his holy Spirite, that those thinges may please him, which we do at this present, and that the rest of our life hereafter may be pure and holy: so that at the last we may come to hys eternall joye, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The people shal answere.

Amen.

The 1662 (still normative in the Church of England) clarifies in its rubrics that the Absolution is to be pronounced by priests (and not, by implication, deacons).

A general Confession to be said of the whole Congregation after the Minister, all kneeling.

ALMIGHTY and most merciful Father, We have erred, and strayed from thy ways like lost sheep, We have followed too much the devices and desires of our own hearts, We have offended against thy holy laws, We have left undone those things which we ought to have done, And we have done those things which we ought not to have done, And there is no health in us: But thou, O Lord, have mercy upon us miserable offenders; Spare thou them, O God, which confess their faults, Restore thou them that are penitent, According to thy promises declared unto mankind in Christ Jesu our Lord: And grant, O most merciful Father, for his sake, That we may hereafter live a godly, righteous, and sober life, To the glory of thy holy Name. Amen.

*The Absolution or Remission of sins to be pronounced by the Priest alone, standing: the people still kneeling.
*
ALMIGHTY God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who desireth not the death of a sinner, but rather that he may turn from his wickedness, and live; and hath given power, and commandment, to his Ministers, to declare and pronounce to his people, being penitent, the Absolution and Remission of their sins: He pardoneth and absolveth all them that truly repent, and unfeignedly believe his holy Gospel. Wherefore let us beseech him to grant us true repentance, and his Holy Spirit, that those things may please him, which we do at this present; and that the rest of our life hereafter may be pure, and holy; so that at the last we may come to his eternal joy; through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I don’t know why, but sometimes when I see “Marian devotions” my mind reads “**Martian **devotions”. :shrug:

Ah, I see what you were trying to say. Sorry for the misunderstanding, friend!

Actually, given all the different Lutheran churches, I was thinking of the Asteroid belt for you. :stuck_out_tongue:

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