Questions for Protestants


#1

Do any of the Protestants here find the fact that the CC is banning gays in seminary a good thing? Does it appeal to your sense of reality and truth? Have any Protestants here considered becoming Catholic because the Church stands for the truth in spite of the worlds opinion?

I am wondering if some serious non-Catholic Christians will come to the CC since so many prot churches are open to gay leadership. Could we have some sort of migration in the future out of the protestant church into the Catholic Church?

-D


#2

[quote=Darrel]Do any of the Protestants here find the fact that the CC is banning gays in seminary a good thing? Does it appeal to your sense of reality and truth? Have any Protestants here considered becoming Catholic because the Church stands for the truth in spite of the worlds opinion?

I am wondering if some serious non-Catholic Christians will come to the CC since so many prot churches are open to gay leadership. Could we have some sort of migration in the future out of the protestant church into the Catholic Church?

-D
[/quote]

What your seeing is a split of conservative members from more “liberal” churches. Mostly the conservatives carry on as they always have.
Im getting conflicting stories (suprise, suprise) from the mainstream press as to how the bishops are interpreting the new ruling.
As far as the RCC using this as an evangelical tool. I dont see it, but then who am I?


#3

There have been a couple of articles in our local papers over the last 4-6 months where more conservative Protestants are leaving their churches because they see the continued change in doctrine, as interpreted by today’s leaders in today’s times, as an affirmation there must be a more singular truth to pursue. The specific issues cited were women in the clergy interestingly enough, and ordaining homosexuals.


#4

I like the fact that the Catholic Church is taking a stand against homosexuality, but they must be very careful not to stand against gays themselves. I would expect the Catholic church to also ban someone with a strong pornography addiction or drug problem from seminary. I also expect them to try and give counseling and guidance out of their problem, and to freely invite them in if the problem is taken care of.
and by the way, this is not an abandonment of my own protestant church. They take this stand as well


#5

[quote=Egg4christ]I like the fact that the Catholic Church is taking a stand against homosexuality, but they must be very careful not to stand against gays themselves. I would expect the Catholic church to also ban someone with a strong pornography addiction or drug problem from seminary. I also expect them to try and give counseling and guidance out of their problem, and to freely invite them in if the problem is taken care of.
and by the way, this is not an abandonment of my own protestant church. They take this stand as well
[/quote]

The CC has always stood for hate the sin, but love the sinner. I know that some will twist it around so that they feel persecuted, but I don;t know how to respond to that without being judgemental.


#6

As I’ve said on another thread, I find the ruling disturbing precisely because of my experiences as a conservative Episcopalian. I’ve gone out of my way to make it clear to more liberal Episcopalians that the orthodox Christian position distinguishes sharply between the person and the behavior and condemns only the behavior. While I understand the logic behind the new ruling, it seems to conflate behavior and identity in exactly the way liberals do, simply making a different judgment on both. I don’t see it as a defense of traditional Christianity at all. Traditional Christianity has no conception of homosexuality as some kind of special identity.

Edwin


#7

[quote=Contarini]Traditional Christianity has no conception of homosexuality as some kind of special identity.

Edwin
[/quote]

Well said! :clapping:


#8

I guess I don’t get it… if a priest (or anyone else in religious vocation) accepts a vow of celibacy, what does it matter if they have a homosexual or heterosexual orientation?

As Edwin says, this sends a mixed message and divides an issue that should have only one side.

As a United Methodist, I’m quite familiar with church politics and public relations. This seems to be a knee-jerk reaction on the part of the Catholic Church.

O+


#9

My personal opinion on the reasonit matters is somewhere inthe Bible does it not say that homosexuality is an abomination in the sight of God? I was raised church of God and recently converted also. And the Church of God always spke out against homo preachers.Idontknow what they do now though. But if someone is homosexually oriented and celibate , wouldn’t they still committing this abomination intheir mind? that is my opinion though. I also agree with the earlier post of the RCC should speak out against the porno problem person as well and if you have a problem with porn then not let you inseminary until and if you can stop this behavior.

maybe Ijust expect too much from other people and myself but Ithink we are called to live a Holy life. These are just my opinions,


#10

[quote=Darrel]Do any of the Protestants here find the fact that the CC is banning gays in seminary a good thing? Does it appeal to your sense of reality and truth? Have any Protestants here considered becoming Catholic because the Church stands for the truth in spite of the worlds opinion?

I am wondering if some serious non-Catholic Christians will come to the CC since so many prot churches are open to gay leadership. Could we have some sort of migration in the future out of the protestant church into the Catholic Church?

-D
[/quote]

I would see it as the CC abandoning God’s truth for the sake of appeasing the world if they didn’t ban gay clergy. I, for one, support the CC in the ban. You cannot be freinds with the world and serve God at the same time.


#11

[quote=O.S. Luke]I guess I don’t get it… if a priest (or anyone else in religious vocation) accepts a vow of celibacy, what does it matter if they have a homosexual or heterosexual orientation?
[/quote]

Consider if a man with a tendency towards pedophilia decides to join the priesthood. Even if he doesn’t act on his tendencies, it will still affect the way he acts around children. If it doesn’t affect the way he acts around children, then he has effectively overcome the desire. That would define his pedophilia as a transitory desire.

The same is true for homosexuals. Should they overcome their desire to the point that not only will they not act on them, but it does not affect their actions in any way, then there is no problem. If they do not act on their desires but the tendency still affects how they act, then 1) they are placing themselves in an occasion of sin, and 2) they confuse their parish as to the proper gender roles.


#12

[quote=Aaron I.]Consider if a man with a tendency towards pedophilia decides to join the priesthood. Even if he doesn’t act on his tendencies, it will still affect the way he acts around children. If it doesn’t affect the way he acts around children, then he has effectively overcome the desire. That would define his pedophilia as a transitory desire.

The same is true for homosexuals. Should they overcome their desire to the point that not only will they not act on them, but it does not affect their actions in any way, then there is no problem. If they do not act on their desires but the tendency still affects how they act, then 1) they are placing themselves in an occasion of sin, and 2) they confuse their parish as to the proper gender roles.
[/quote]

No argument there… but extending your argument: what about heterosexual men with a desire for women? If they do not act on their desires but the tendency still affects how they act, then aren’t they are placing themselves in an occasion of sin (just as a homosexual man with men)?

O+


#13

[quote=O.S. Luke]No argument there… but extending your argument: what about heterosexual men with a desire for women? If they do not act on their desires but the tendency still affects how they act, then aren’t they are placing themselves in an occasion of sin (just as a homosexual man with men)?

O+
[/quote]

Yep, said heterosexual man, who is married to the Church, would behave towards his parishoners similarly to how any other married man might behave. The priest just has a perfect Bride while the rest of the men (and women) have fallible spouses. His Bride is never jealous or unreasonable. She does, however, command and require much more of him. How this might place the priest into the occasion of sin is really up to him. His desire for his spouse, the Church, is an ordered desire either way.


#14

[quote=Darrel]Do any of the Protestants here find the fact that the CC is banning gays in seminary a good thing? Does it appeal to your sense of reality and truth? Have any Protestants here considered becoming Catholic because the Church stands for the truth in spite of the worlds opinion?

I am wondering if some serious non-Catholic Christians will come to the CC since so many prot churches are open to gay leadership. Could we have some sort of migration in the future out of the protestant church into the Catholic Church?

-D

[/quote]

Hi Ho All
I might be wrong on this but I thought I heard that If a person is gay, but havn’t had a homosexual relationship for the last three years then they could go to seminary school
thanks.


#15

[quote=NonDenom]Hi Ho All
I might be wrong on this but I thought I heard that If a person is gay, but havn’t had a homosexual relationship for the last three years then they could go to seminary school
thanks.
[/quote]

No. They must abstain form homosexual relationships AND have overcome or mastered their homosexual tendencies, distanced themselves from the homosexual culture and lifestyle, and show that htye are fully committed and and capable of a celibate lifestyle. That seems to be how people are reading this docurment anyhow.

I’m happy the RCC is taking this firm step. I wish the majority of leaders within ECUSA, the Canadian Episcopal Church, and the Church of England would take a similar step.


#16

[quote=Darrel]Do any of the Protestants here find the fact that the CC is banning gays in seminary a good thing? Does it appeal to your sense of reality and truth? Have any Protestants here considered becoming Catholic because the Church stands for the truth in spite of the worlds opinion?

I am wondering if some serious non-Catholic Christians will come to the CC since so many prot churches are open to gay leadership. Could we have some sort of migration in the future out of the protestant church into the Catholic Church?

-D
[/quote]

I think the official CC statement is to not allow practicing homosexuals into the seminary but it also stated that existing non-practicing homosexual priests and seminarians (ie those who have not had an encounter in the past three years) may remain in the church so long as these tendecies do not again surface and become a major problem in retention in the clergy.


#17

As a Lutheran, and a pretty liberal one at that, I think the ban is harsh and judgemental. The new document states “the Church cannot admit to the seminary, or to holy orders those who practice homosexuality; present deep seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called ‘gay culture’.” I want to know just how DEEP those deep seated tendencies go. What person, if they feel that they have been called to the Church, and truly wants to be a priest or nun, yet is gay would actually “confess” this if they know what they truly want to be will be taken away from them?! Could heterosexual tendencies be put in place of homosexual? The document also states, IF a young man, a priestly candidate, hetero- or homosexual, abstains from relations for 3 years, a celibate lifestyle, they can enter the call to the diaconate.

I also hope that the Church isn’t taking a stand against the gay community and slamming the door in their faces! There are a lot of homosexual people that were raised Catholic. many love their Church like many of you, but just how loving is the Church to them?

There is so much proof now that homosexuality is an abnormality…a GENETIC abnormality. It isn’t a choice. It’s no more of a choice than it was for most of us to be heterosexual. Like I’ve asked before, if prayer can “cure” this abnomality and make them all “normal,” than start praying for cures for other abnormalities. The Old Testament speaks out against a lot of things, including homosexuality. BUT they also felt women who were barren must have sinned greatly, and cast them out or stoned them to death. Infants, if imperfect, were tossed out. Medical technology was non-existent! Anything that wasn’t “normal” was evil! Like I’ve also said before, on another thread, my youngest brother has Down’s. They would have killed him, and very possibly my mom for having him, in Biblical times. Heck, when he was born people wanted to put him “away.” Thank God education systems, and medical advancements help people understand more now! Maybe, just maybe, in a few hundred years people will accept and quit judging. The Church had to do some backpeddaling on their teachings on suicide and abusive marriages/divorce, maybe they will on this as well.

Questions to ask yourselves: Does the gay person down the street from you, or sitting at the next table, really affect your life?
If you found out that your priest or pastor was gay, and he/she had been your pastor/priest for years, would you leave the church? would you force them to leave? Would all the good and holy things they have done, not be good and holy anymore? Would you take communion from them?

Hope I didn’t offend anyone…just food for thought.


#18

My answer would be that if it was revealed and true that a priest was homosexual AND he wasnt or have abstained from practicing that he would not have to leave the priesthood or the church. Scripture is very exacting on the practicing of such things. As to how the faithful would receive this: It would be anyone’s guess but love and understanding must be part of any decision made by the church.


#19

[quote=Darrel]Do any of the Protestants here find the fact that the CC is banning gays in seminary a good thing? Does it appeal to your sense of reality and truth? Have any Protestants here considered becoming Catholic because the Church stands for the truth in spite of the worlds opinion?

I am wondering if some serious non-Catholic Christians will come to the CC since so many prot churches are open to gay leadership. Could we have some sort of migration in the future out of the protestant church into the Catholic Church?

-D
[/quote]

Darrel, to be honest…YES. I have considered, am considering, etc. I am waiting to see what happens in 2008 (I think) between the Episcopal Church USA and Anglican Church. And you know the issue that I am talking about.


#20

[quote=Egg4christ]I like the fact that the Catholic Church is taking a stand against homosexuality, but they must be very careful not to stand against gays themselves. I would expect the Catholic church to also ban someone with a strong pornography addiction or drug problem from seminary. I also expect them to try and give counseling and guidance out of their problem, and to freely invite them in if the problem is taken care of.
and by the way, this is not an abandonment of my own protestant church. They take this stand as well
[/quote]

I don’t think it will. I think homosexuality is a sin. I don’t equate levels of sins so therefore I think it is the same as my pride. I’m a sinner saved by his grace. Grace is attractive, love is attractive those are the things that draw people to Christ. I think its a legalistic stance in a manner of speaking. Although I understand the intention behind it. Standing for truth. But I dont’ think it will draw people to the RCC.


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