Quick question about The Catechism of the Catholic Church

That still means “I get to decide”; it’s still a subjective decision. The answer here should be objective, not subjective.

No – Paul taught that there were folks who honestly thought that the Holy Spirit was leading them, were wrong.

Paul offered correction to those who were wrong. Does that mean that he merely left them to their own personal feelings about God or the Holy Spirit, or does it mean that he said “hey – you’re mistaken; here’s what God is asking of you”…?

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“What you bind/loose on earth is bound/loosed in heaven.”

What does that mean?

(I take it to mean that it’s not against God’s will, but that God protects the Church from error. What the Church binds on earth, God binds in heaven.)

:rofl:
Yeah. :+1:

The way to the Father is through Jesus. The way to the fullness of the truth of Jesus’ teachings is through the Church. That’s what Jesus told us… yep! It’s actually in Scripture!

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does Paul teach us not to trust the God

Did Paul teach “just trust God” when folks were breaking into factions? Did Paul teach “just trust God” when folks were ok with immorality among themselves? Did Paul teach “just trust God” when folks were boasting about the particular gifts that had been given them?

Or… did Paul teach “you belong to Christ, not Paul or Cephas or Apollo”? (1 Cor 3)

Did he teach that people should have been sorrowful, not proud, at immoral actions done in their midst? (1 Cor 5)

Didn’t he teach that speaking in tongues or prophecy or wisdom and knowledge and charitable giving is nothing, compared to love? (1 Cor 13)

No… Paul didn’t say “meh… just trust that you understand God”. He taught “hey! you’ve got it wrong! Here’s what God asks of you!”

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Did Paul teach us not to trust God?

Actually, didn’t he tell folks to follow what he taught?

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so did he teach us not to trust God?

“Our appeal does not spring from error or uncleanness, nor is it made with guile; but just as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, so we speak … And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God.” (1 Thess 2:4, 13)

Literally, he’s telling folks not only that his teaching – as an apostle – comes by virtue of God’s approval, but also that this divinely approved teaching is the “word of God” because it comes from God’s approbation.

So… it’s “trust God, who gave us authority to teach His message.”

It’s not “trust that anything you hear is from God”.

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so yes? Paul taught us not to trust God.

because that passage, you posted isn’t saying not to trust God, it says accept those who received the Word of God, and to accept it because its is not from man, but from God… so it is the Word of God (Jesus) we should trust, not because it comes from man but from God.

… which is also at work in you believers.

It is a book that exposes the Church teachings on everything, it doesnt always explain it though.

No.

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Well… be careful with such a terse and definitive answer. Inasmuch as the catechism conveys the teachings of the Church, it is conveying Sacred Tradition, isn’t it? And, here’s what the catechism says about the relationship between Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition:

So, the catechism – as a book – isn’t the equal of the Bible. However, the teachings inside the catechism, inasmuch as they are Sacred Tradition, are to be “accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.”

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Ahh, but you’re missing the part about accepting the teaching as being from God because it was taught by those ‘approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel’.

So: from God, but through those He has identified to teach it authoritatively.

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Did you miss that part where Paul says "We also constantly give thanks to God for this, that when you received the word of God that you heard from us, you accepted it ** not as a human word but as what it really is, God’s word, which is also at work in you believers. 1 Thessalonians 2:13

Jesus also said “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father in heaven.(https://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+16&version=NRSVCE).

Paul say God is revealing His truth to us, and Jesus says God is revealing His truth to us.

So again I ask, is Paul teaching is not to trust God?

No, I didn’t. Did you miss the part where Paul asserts that it’s the word of God that “you heard from us”, and Paul describes the ‘us’ here as “we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel”?

The issue isn’t the message, as such, but the identity of who teaches the message. When it’s ones whom God has entrusted with the Gospel, then trust the message. When it’s not, though… Paul castigates them for getting it wrong!

Paul is teaching us to trust the word of God as proclaimed by those to whom that teaching has been entrusted.

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What… I’m sorry… WHAT?

Did you just say the message doesnt matter? What they say doesn’t matter as long as it’s said by some of authority?

sigh. Really?

No… the message matters. C’mon… are you really suggesting I’m saying otherwise?

The authenticity of the message that you’re hearing, though, in a certain sense is somewhat dependent on who’s proclaiming it.

Look at it this way: if you went to the average Joe on the street and asked about your chest pains, you might get a valid answer. Then again, since he hasn’t been appointed as a valid medical practitioner… you might not. On the other hand, if you go to a physician who is trained by the highest authorities, and given credentials to practice medicine, then you can trust what he says.

Does ‘Joe’ have a chance of getting it right? Yep. Can you be certain he’s right? Nope… all you have is your own personal subjective opinion on whether Joe’s a nice guy and seems to be reasonable.

I’ll go with the credentialed doctor, though.

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Paul taught that what a lot of people thought was God speaking to them was not “the way”

hold fast to tradition, the teaching he taught from the beginning, look to the Church, the Pillar of truth.

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and who is giving the credentials to the person who has the credentials you are placing your trust in… would He happen to be Jesus?

Which to another question… if the Apostles are given their authority by Jesus, and we trust, Jesus how can they then teach us not to trust Jesus, when Jesus is the One who gives the authority to those who are teach us they have the authority to teach us?

So did Paul or any of the Apostles for that matter, teach us not to trust God?

Yes, but did he teach us not to trust God, or is he warning us about trusting people who claim to be the voice of God?

He’s warning us about the voice in our head. The only way to discern if that voice is Jesus or someone (something) else is to compare it to what the Church teaches.

The Holy Spirit is not going to reveal to any one individual anything that contradicts public revelation. The revelation we all received through the Gospel. The written word & the oral understanding given to & protected by the Church.

I don’t doubt that the Holy Spirit is leading you to the Lutheran & the Catholic Church. I don’t know why he would but who am I (or anyone) to question God’s counsel? But I know he is not telling you their communion & our communion is the same. Because that contradicts the truth the Catholic Church teaches. That contradicts the truth of Jesus’ own words (John 6). That contradicts everything God has taught his chosen people from the first moment he instructed them to perform sacrifices.

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Yep. He gave them to some, but not others. I’m going with the ‘credentialed’ teaching authority.

The apostles absolutely taught us to ‘trust Jesus’. However, they also taught us “avoid false teaching, even from folks who claim they’re teaching what Jesus taught.”

They taught us “don’t trust everyone who claims to be accurately representing Jesus’ teaching.”

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