Radical Sanation


#1

Hi–after returning to the Catholic Faith a year or so ago (never really went away, just didn’t do much to practice other than the Christmas/Easter masses), I am attempting to have my marriage convalidated via a Radical Sanation (my wife is Jewish and we were married 16 yrs ago by the local mayor).

My Pastor never saw the form before my asking and was unaware of the procedure. he has asked if we both can come in to speak with him. Is there a requirement that he speaks to both of us? I pretty much know my wife will not go for it (she wouldn’t go for a Convalidation ceremony, etc) as she feels we are married. If I need to do something to be able to practice my religion fully, she will not interfere, but she really wants no part of it, as it does not affect her & she is not confortable with the Catholic faith.

I read previously that the Catholic spouse could do this by themselves. Is this true? I hope someone can give me confirmation of this as I really do want to return to the Church fully & be able to receive Communion.


#2

I found a form for a radical sanation but would your wife not be willing to convalidate your marriage? I believe you could have a rabbi perform the ceremony with a priest or deacon present to witness your vows.

Also, with a radical sanation, you as a Catholic, must promise to raise your children Catholic. You didn’t say if you had children or how you raised them if you’ve already had them, but that is a part of the sanation process, which may be a mote point if all your children are grown adults (by a previous marriage if there was one).


#3

[quote=Della]I found a form for a radical sanation but would your wife not be willing to convalidate your marriage? I believe you could have a rabbi perform the ceremony with a priest or deacon present to witness your vows.

Also, with a radical sanation, you as a Catholic, must promise to raise your children Catholic. You didn’t say if you had children or how you raised them if you’ve already had them, but that is a part of the sanation process, which may be a mote point if all your children are grown adults.
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No–as I said before, she is unwiling to convalidate it. We have one daughter (10) who is currently being raised Jewish. I do make her aware of my religion & beliefs & she has been inquisitive in the past.


#4

[quote=JohnnyK]No–as I said before, she is unwiling to convalidate it. We have one daughter (10) who is currently being raised Jewish. I do make her aware of my religion & beliefs & she has been inquisitive in the past.
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In that case, I’d suggest you download a copy of the sanation form in the link and bring it to your pastor and let him take it from there. It does say about raising the children Catholic “insofar as it is possible”, but you’d have to ask your priest or possibly your bishop if that means you don’t have to raise your daughter as a Catholic if her mother is unwilling. Then, if this is the case, you could show this form to your wife, with the proper understanding of what that phrase means and see if she will agree with it.

Or, you could both talk to her rabbi to see if he would be willing to do a convalidation ceremony with a Catholic priest or deacon present to witness your vows so that your marriage could be seen as sacramental in the eyes of the Church. You know, very often the rabbis and priests are much more open to doing these things than are lay people who may think they are being disloyal to their own faith by having a ceremony performed with a Catholic clergy to witness it. Do you think your wife would be willing if her rabbi were willing?


#5

From the canon law of retroactive validation (a.k.a. radical sanation):

Canon 1161 §3 A retroactive validation is not to be granted unless it is probable that the parties intend to persevere in conjugal life.

Verifying this condition is the only real reason that I see why your priest would want to talk with your wife.


#6

[quote=JohnnyK]Hi–after returning to the Catholic Faith a year or so ago (never really went away, just didn’t do much to practice other than the Christmas/Easter masses), I am attempting to have my marriage convalidated via a Radical Sanation (my wife is Jewish and we were married 16 yrs ago by the local mayor).

My Pastor never saw the form before my asking and was unaware of the procedure. he has asked if we both can come in to speak with him. Is there a requirement that he speaks to both of us? I pretty much know my wife will not go for it (she wouldn’t go for a Convalidation ceremony, etc) as she feels we are married. If I need to do something to be able to practice my religion fully, she will not interfere, but she really wants no part of it, as it does not affect her & she is not confortable with the Catholic faith.

I read previously that the Catholic spouse could do this by themselves. Is this true? I hope someone can give me confirmation of this as I really do want to return to the Church fully & be able to receive Communion.
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Congratulations on doing the right thing. May God bless you both. Perhaps this may help.

Normally the priest will speak with you both and conduct a normal prenuptial investigation even in the case a radical sanation. You might recontact him with your concerns though, and there might be some accomodation possible.

Don’t bother downloading some internet form though, unless it’s from your diocese.

Radical sanation is a reasonably uncommon thing, and your parish priest may be facing it for the first time. Invite Father to read canon 1161 - 1165 and to contact the office of the bishop or the chancellor his diocese for the local procedures. He could also consult his diocesan tribunal, and someone there could elaborate on it.

The radical sanation or “healing to the root” of an invalid marriage is its convalidation without the renewal of consent. It is granted by the diocesaan bishop in most normal cases, but it could require the Apostolic See in certain cases.

The grant of a radical sanation would includes a dispensation from the impediment of disparity of cult in your case since your spouse is not baptized. But for added safety, the diocese might require have the priest to document the impediment and even to request the dispensation explicitly.

Before the diocesan bishop can grant the radical sanation, it must be probable that you and your wife will perservere in the marriage. This is what the priest would probably need to ask her. He will also need to establish her freedom to marry as well as yours, since we do that in all cases. In the normal course of events, she must be informed of your promises to persevere in the faith and have the children baptized/raised Catholic to the best of your abilities.

While a radical sanation can be validly granted even without the knowledge of one or both of the parties, this is not to be done without a serious reason. The priest might discuss this with you after speaking with someone from the diocese.

But radical sanations are often granted when one of the parties is unwilling to go through the process of a simple convalidation. This is another wedding ceremony in which the parties must give new consent. To do this would require their belief that the first ceremony (i.e., the justice of the peace wedding) did not create the bond of marriage. Often non Catholics do believe that the first ceremony was effective. So they wouldn’t want another ceremony, and probably wouldn’t give valid consent at it. They would just see it as refreshing or calling down God’s approval on something already valid.

But since Catholics cannot validly marry the non baptized without a special relaxation of Church law called a dispensation, as you know, the Church would not consider this marriage valid. As well, an additional reason for its invalidity exists in that Catholics are normally required to marry “in the Church” or receive a dispensation to do otherwise.

Again, though, every wish for God’s blessing as you do this.


#7

[quote=Della]In that case, I’d suggest you download a copy of the sanation form in the link and bring it to your pastor and let him take it from there. It does say about raising the children Catholic “insofar as it is possible”, but you’d have to ask your priest or possibly your bishop if that means you don’t have to raise your daughter as a Catholic if her mother is unwilling. Then, if this is the case, you could show this form to your wife, with the proper understanding of what that phrase means and see if she will agree with it.

Or, you could both talk to her rabbi to see if he would be willing to do a convalidation ceremony with a Catholic priest or deacon present to witness your vows so that your marriage could be seen as sacramental in the eyes of the Church. You know, very often the rabbis and priests are much more open to doing these things than are lay people who may think they are being disloyal to their own faith by having a ceremony performed with a Catholic clergy to witness it. Do you think your wife would be willing if her rabbi were willing?
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Thanks for the info Della. I can’t find the form online for my Diocese, but did see some others & it seems simple & straightforward. I thought you must do all within your power to raise any present/future children Catholic, but was unaware of them HAVING to be Catholic as well. My Pastor has the forms & was going to call me when he looked at them (well over a week ago) but I have not heard from him since (kinda been hard to get in touch with him throughout my searching). I will attempt to reach him again today.

I actually did try to set up a ceremony (Rabbi & Priest) for our 15th–thought it would be nice, but the Rabbi would not do it &, in retrospect, she said she sees no need for it, so that is not an option for me.

One thing I have read is that the reason for the Sanation process, is that the non-Catholic spouse is unwilling to go through the procedure & the non-Catholic spose need not be made aware of it, if it would cause undue stress or harm to the relationship… This makes sense to me, but want to be sure the above is true.

Heck-I just want to be able to come back to the Church fully.


#8

Since the last time you approached your wife’s rabbi it was just because having your vows said before her and a priest/deacon would just have been “nice” I can understand why she would think it unnecessary at that time. But, if you explain to her that without the convalidation you cannot return to the sacraments of your church, she might be willing to do the ceremony since it would be for a serious reason.

Would your pastor be willing to talk to the rabbi to explain the situation, if you needed his back up? You see, it would be much better not to have to go through the radical sanation process if you can find a way for everyone to agree to a convalidation. And I believe you are right that you are not obliged to show your wife the radical sanation form or tell her you had it done, if you are forced to go that route.

I too hope you can return to the sacraments of the Church–I just am hoping it can be done without having to do it without your wife’s knowledge and even more importantly, without her understanding. I will definitely pray for you and your situation.


#9

[quote=Della]Since the last time you approached your wife’s rabbi it was just because having your vows said before her and a priest/deacon would just have been “nice” I can understand why she would think it unnecessary at that time. But, if you explain to her that without the convalidation you cannot return to the sacraments of your church, she might be willing to do the ceremony since it would be for a serious reason.

Would your pastor be willing to talk to the rabbi to explain the situation, if you needed his back up? You see, it would be much better not to have to go through the radical sanation process if you can find a way for everyone to agree to a convalidation. And I believe you are right that you are not obliged to show your wife the radical sanation form or tell her you had it done, if you are forced to go that route.

I too hope you can return to the sacraments of the Church–I just am hoping it can be done without having to do it without your wife’s knowledge and even more importantly, without her understanding. I will definitely pray for you and your situation.
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Hi Della–when I approached her before, it was twofold (A) it would be nice to do and (B) it is the only way I can fully participate in the Sacraments, and she did say no, knowing the 2 reasons. This is why, after consulting a friend of mine who is a Pastor in a diff Diocese, I sought the Sanation. I have been trying for the past year or so to accomplish this, so it’s been a long arduous process for me. Given everyone’s input above (which I am very thankful for), it appears I may not be able to do this. I guess I will have to keep prodding my Pastor and await his word /decision in the matter. If I have to have her involved though, I think I will have to abandon my quest, as I really don’t want to start a row in a good marriage (other than this topic I guess). Thanks for your prayers–they are certainly needed and wanted at this time.


#10

Hi all–just wanted to give an update. I met with my Pastor alst week, we filled out the paperwork & I signed the typed copies last night. he will be sending in the paperwork & I guess it’s just a waiting game now. Hopefully it will be a positive outcome.

he did not have to meet with my wife, but if he should need anything further form her, she has assented to provide whatever information necessary in a writing.

Feels like I am alsmost back home, just praying for a positive outcome. Thank you all for your thoughts & prayers–you have all been very helpful & supportive! :thumbsup:


#11

I received word from my Pastor that my request was granted. I just have to sign the form, which I will do this weekend. nice to be back. :thumbsup:


#12

@ Johnny! Congratulations!!

I think I may have to do the same process as you did. I'm married to a non-Catholic and despite many attempts, he doesn't want the convalidation process. During those attempts, my husband and I always ended up having a rocky relationship. It's our first marriage and we both want to keep it but he just doesn't want to go through the process.

We don't have children yet but, when God permits it, he expressed consent of them being Catholic and that I continue practicing my faith. I hope I get approved too!


#13

http://www.i-mockery.com/shorts/altered-beast/1.gif


#14

Glad to see this thread. I had a hard time coming up with info on this after it was suggested to me by a deacon.

I wonder if hubby (who is Catholic; I'm RCIA) would have to promise to raise his son (by his ex-girlfriend) Catholic? They had agreed to raise him Wiccan.


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