So, when we die our souls are be in heaven (or the unthinkable alternative)? Also the saints’ souls are in heaven?
If so, then I don’t understand what protestant’s issue is with asking Mary and the saint’s to pray for us is? They continuously say we are praying to the dead when there not. I’m just trying to get a better understanding of this issue. :shrug:
I don’t understand protestant theology and that is why I’m not one. Yes, the souls in heaven are very much alive and we call them, along with those here on earth and those in purgatory, the communion of saints. We ask those in heaven to intercede (pray for us) as we do those here on earth. The body/soul unity is the normal state for humanity and that is why we will be restored to that state on the last day. But once we were conceived and our souls immediately created by God we never die. If we choose to alienate ourselves to God then we choose to spend eternity without Him. But on the last day all will rise.
So, in closing, we do not pray to the dead. Their bodies went to the grave but they are very much alive in heaven. I feel so sorry for those protestant friends of ours who have a limited prayer group while we Catholics unite heaven and earth ultimately at Mass.
Read Romans Chapter 6. In our baptism we die in Christ and we share in His resurrection. Even in protestant theology, which is never absolute, most will not see spiritual death except for those who went to hell.
God speaks about being the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob stating that He is a God of the living not the dead. I don’t have scripture reference at hand but will find it. Being dead in Christ is to submit to the Cross and the tribulations that we must overcome.
Most protestants acknowledge life after death but that those in heaven have no concern for those of us here on earth. Luke 16:19-31 is the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus. Here we see communication between those separated by the great chasm. Really for those who say that being dead in Christ means to cease to exist is to misinterpret the entire gospel. Jesus said to the thief next to Him on the cross (Luke 23:43) " Today you will be with me in paradise" He died with Christ on the Cross as we all do in our baptism and he will rise with Christ on the last day. For now his soul is in heaven with our Risen Lord.
God Bless you and thank you for the compliment on my username. I actually do…teachccd!
This is also called proof-texting. Proper biblical interpretation (hermeneutics) must take into account many different factors including the audience being addressed and how they believed at that time. The Jews did not have a great concept of the afterlife. Many times Paul had to address them in the ways in which they could comprehend for their hope in Christ. Be VERY careful with those who use scripture this way. It must be interpreted in the same light that it was written. The same Holy Spirit that guided the Church to document the gospel now guides the Church to interpret it. Any other way is chaos and we call that protestantism. No consistency, Just private interpretaion that leads many to fallacy. God Bless:)
Thanks, teachccd. I have never heard of this before, that the dead in Christ refers to those that are buried with Him in baptism, and carry the cross. It makes a lot of sense!
I have a collection of verses on this topic. Are these any of the ones you are thinking?
34 And Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage; 35 but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, 36 for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. 37 But that the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the bush, where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. 38 Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living; for all live to him.” Luke 20:34-40
27 He is not God of the dead, but of the living; you are quite wrong."
Rev. 5:8 - the prayers of the saints (on heaven and earth) are presented to God by the angels and saints in heaven. This shows that the saints intercede on our behalf before God, and it also demonstrates that our prayers on earth are united with their prayers in heaven. (The “24 elders” are refer to the chosen of God – perhaps the 12 tribes and 12 apostles - and the
“four living creatures” are said to refer to the angels.)
Rev. 6:9-11 – the martyred saints in heaven cry out in a loud voice to God to avenge their blood “on those who dwell upon the earth.” These are “imprecatory prayers,” which are pleas for
God’s judgment (see similar prayers in Psalm 35:1; 59:1-17; 139:19; Jer. 11:20; 15:15; 18:19;
Zech.1:12-13). This means that the saints in heaven are praying for those on earth, and God answers their prayers (Rev. 8:1-5). We, therefore, ask for their intercession and protection.
Rev. 8:3-4 – in heaven an angel mingles incense with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne of God, and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God. These prayers “rise up” before God and elicit various kinds of earthly activity. God responds to his children’s requests, whether made by his children on earth or in heaven.