Rapture- taken or left behind


#1

About the “Rapture”, I know Baptists that say they want to be taken up so they need to be ready and then I heard, some apologist say that it was attributed to the days of Noah and that they got it backwards. The left behind people were Noahs’ family. Now I tried this idea on a non baptist, but he believes in the rapture and he said that to be “taken” meant that Noahs’ family were taken into the boat and to be saved and the left behind were the ones that perished. Also he gave the example like going on a trip, do we want to be taken or do we want to be left behind. It seemed to me that his meaning was based on the timing of the rapture, like his answer came from the rapture taking place as the tribulation was happening and I agreed with the apologist, after the tribulation was all said and done who wsa left behind and who was taken.

Any thoughts would mostly be appreciated.:slight_smile:


#2

[quote=faithbound] About the “Rapture”, I know Baptists that say they want to be taken up so they need to be ready and then I heard, some apologist say that it was attributed to the days of Noah and that they got it backwards. The left behind people were Noahs’ family. Now I tried this idea on a non baptist, but he believes in the rapture and he said that to be “taken” meant that Noahs’ family were taken into the boat and to be saved and the left behind were the ones that perished. Also he gave the example like going on a trip, do we want to be taken or do we want to be left behind. It seemed to me that his meaning was based on the timing of the rapture, like his answer came from the rapture taking place as the tribulation was happening and I agreed with the apologist, after the tribulation was all said and done who wsa left behind and who was taken.

Any thoughts would mostly be appreciated.:slight_smile:
[/quote]

“Left behind” is not a biblical concept. It is a novelist’s interpretation of the second coming of the Lord. It makes for fascinating fiction but it is not theologically sound.

And I do mean “novelist.”


#3

[quote=The Barrister]“Left behind” is not a biblical concept. It is a novelist’s interpretation of the second coming of the Lord. It makes for fascinating fiction but it is not theologically sound.

And I do mean “novelist.”
[/quote]

That’s ok as long as you only use the term “novelist” in it’s most clinical sense. :stuck_out_tongue:

But in reality, the Left Behind gang and others like them are thought to be reputable bible scholars by many (if not most) of their readers. It’s easy to dismiss them as fiction, but they are a bit more dangerous than that. The Da Vinci Code is fiction as well, but there are a lot of people who are believing the foundation on which it’s based. Same with Left Behind…it perpetuates and solidifies false belief. Technically it is fiction, but to toss it on the heap with Tom Clancy or Dean Koontz and assume that all readers are doing the same is unwise.

I tend to agree with the apologist mentioned in the original post about them having it backwards. It seems to me that whenever God has cast down some judgement, it was the righteous who were “left behind.” However, pointing that out to someone who believes in the rapture isn’t likely to convince them otherwise.

The rapture, like a lot of ideas that are born of sola scriptura and personal interpretation, is a presupposition that is held as a matter of faith. For those who believe in that false doctrine, it is a central tenet of their faith. Rapturists will therefore tend to interpret scripture in a way that fits that presupposition. The rapture doctrine is born of dispensationalism which has many presuppositions which automatically put it at odds with the Catholic faith and most historical interpretations of scripture. I’ve found that debating scripture interpretations with dispensationalists is like trying to have a telephone conversation with someone with whom you don’t share a common language. :banghead:

I tend to think that any apologetics in this specific area ought to be framed in historical arguments. There are several books which demonstrate very well that the doctrine did not really appear until sometime in the 19th century.


#4

What? You guys still here???:smiley: Did you get the note that I left for you to get when I departed with the Lord?

Gosh - it is amazing how there are left behind survival kits. Talk about a hoax perpetuated on unsuspecting people. What is irksome is that the authors of the books and the kits are Christian and yet have no problem raking in the money - working on people’s fear.


#5

[quote=chimakuni]Talk about a hoax perpetuated on unsuspecting people. What is irksome is that the authors of the books and the kits are Christian and yet have no problem raking in the money - working on people’s fear.
[/quote]

I tend to shy away from arguments based on people making money from some form of ministry or Christian activity, since I really don’t know what they do with their money once they get it. I hear similar charges leveled at Mel Gibson for The Passion.

In the case of the rapture preachers though, I don’t think it’s accurate to say they work on people’s fear. At least it’s not accurate to say they knowingly and intentionally work on people’s fear. I think the guys who preach this stuff are convinced that the rapture is part of the gospel. They believe it. In that respect I don’t question their intentions…only their accuracy.


#6

[quote=Socrates]I tend to shy away from arguments based on people making money from some form of ministry or Christian activity, since I really don’t know what they do with their money once they get it. I hear similar charges leveled at Mel Gibson for The Passion.

In the case of the rapture preachers though, I don’t think it’s accurate to say they work on people’s fear. At least it’s not accurate to say they knowingly and intentionally work on people’s fear. I think the guys who preach this stuff are convinced that the rapture is part of the gospel. They believe it. In that respect I don’t question their intentions…only their accuracy.
[/quote]

I have no problem with people making money. I am a capitalist! I do however, have a problem with people who prey on other people’s fears. Fears of being “left behind”. This doctrine is heretical and therefore no matter whether they believe it or not, they are wrong.

God Bless -


#7

[quote=chimakuni]I have no problem with people making money. I am a capitalist! I do however, have a problem with people who prey on other people’s fears. Fears of being “left behind”. This doctrine is heretical and therefore no matter whether they believe it or not, they are wrong.
[/quote]

I’m hesitant to speak for other people, but the point isn’t that the Left-Behinders are right. They are not. The point isn’t that people concerned with the truth shouldn’t challenge the Left-Behinders. Truth must be defended.

The point is that it is an ad hominem characterization that Left-Behinders prey on people’s fears. It is exactly analogous to a Left-Behinder saying that the Catholic Church preys on people’s fears by threatening those who do not make good confessions with eternal damnation.

More to the point, in my considerable experience with Left-Behinders, fear is not an issue. For example, my mother is an ardent Left-Behinder, and there is no fear involved in the doctrine for her. In fact, it is a source of great comfort for her to think that God will spare his faithful from suffering at the hands of the Anti-Christ.

– Mark L. Chance.


#8

[quote=mlchance]I’m hesitant to speak for other people, but the point isn’t that the Left-Behinders are right. They are not. The point isn’t that people concerned with the truth shouldn’t challenge the Left-Behinders. Truth must be defended.

The point is that it is an ad hominem characterization that Left-Behinders prey on people’s fears. It is exactly analogous to a Left-Behinder saying that the Catholic Church preys on people’s fears by threatening those who do not make good confessions with eternal damnation.

More to the point, in my considerable experience with Left-Behinders, fear is not an issue. For example, my mother is an ardent Left-Behinder, and there is no fear involved in the doctrine for her. In fact, it is a source of great comfort for her to think that God will spare his faithful from suffering at the hands of the Anti-Christ.

– Mark L. Chance.
[/quote]

Mark, I guess you and I have not met the same people who are left-behinders, although didn’t we go to different high schools together?

Agreed - one must always present the truth. If one was not concerned about being raptured up with God and leaving others behind, why purchase the left behind kits? What would be the motivation? Fear - fear that their loved ones would not know what happened to them. I rest my case…and hey, you still owe me for the lunch money I lent you!


#9

[quote=chimakuni]Mark, I guess you and I have not met the same people who are left-behinders, although didn’t we go to different high schools together?

Agreed - one must always present the truth. If one was not concerned about being raptured up with God and leaving others behind, why purchase the left behind kits? What would be the motivation? Fear - fear that their loved ones would not know what happened to them. I rest my case…and hey, you still owe me for the lunch money I lent you!
[/quote]

We should engage the left-behinders when the oportunity presents itself, but we must be armed.
John Martignoni has a great tape called “The Rapture & the Bible.” It’s a great listen and has ample Scriptural material (as do all of his tapes).
www.biblechristiansociety.com

Check out all of his tapes. They’re all good.
God bless


#10

Highly recommend the book “The Rapture Trap.” I gave it to a Catholic, who was taken in by the" left behind" nonsense. She has turned a bit from that direction, but still needs prayers.

Deacon Tony SFO


#11

When I was Protestant, I believed in the Rapture. I wasn’t scared of being left behind. To me and my church, the Rapture is “the blessed hope.”

I highly recommend David Currie’s wonderful book called “The Rapture.” He does a magnificent Biblical analysis of the end times theology. Anyone who is interested in ET stuff, especially Protestants, would really learn a lot from this book. I know I did.


#12

Faithbound,

In your post you stated, “…Now I tried this idea on a non baptist, but he believes in the rapture and he said that to be ‘taken’ meant that Noah’s family were taken into the boat to be saved and the left behind were the ones that perished.”

I’ve heard this before also. My reply to them was they should notice that even if they took the view that Noah was taken and saved, there was no second chance for those left behind in the flood (tribulation). The “Left Behind” proponents give a senario where some of those left behind come to faith in Christ. This does not fit the Noah scenario. “All” those left behind in the flood perished. There was no “post-rapture” second chance.


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