RC Women Priests?


#1

What do RC’s believe about this website promoting women priests?

romancatholicwomenpriests.org/index.htm

They also seem to think a variety of women have been ordained to the priesthood. Is this true? are their ordinations considered valid? Do you think this is paving the way for women to enter the priesthood in the RCC?

God bless


#2

Never could happen, never will happen. There is no such thing as a Catholic woman priest. Do not let anyone tell you otherwise;) . The Church’s stance will never change on this one. It is literally impossible for women to be ordained.

If you are interested in further reading, I suggest:

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

"Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful."

Ordinatio Sacerdotalis
John Paul II


#3

[quote=ematouk]What do RC’s believe about this website promoting women priests?
[/quote]

Heretics…pure and simple!

They also seem to think a variety of women have been ordained to the priesthood. Is this true?

No, you cannot ordain a woman. It’s impossible. You can try ordaining a dog in the same manner and nothing will happen. For the Sacrament of Holy Orders you need valid matter and that is a baptized male.

are their ordinations considered valid?

Nope

Do you think this is paving the way for women to enter the priesthood in the RCC?

No, the Church will never ordain women because She simply cannot do it even if the Pope himself with all the bishops and even every single person living on this planet wanted to. Those people are heretics who are extremelly dangerous. Not only they are cutting themselves from the Church but they are leading other poeple from the thuth and the Sacraments. We can all pretty much image where this leads to…

Stay away from them!


#4

There was one single case, during the Second World War a bishop allowed a nun who was held with other prisoners in a Japanese camp to say Mass. She was told to stop when the war ended.

She was obedient, whilst these women are disobedient. That’s a massive difference. You can be illicit but valid, but can you be licit and invalid? I don’t think we can ever know whether her Masses were really Masses or not.


#5

A group of women priests were excommunicated in 2002. I don"t know if this is the same group. They will get the same treatment.

" The Vatican has excommunicated seven women who were ordained as priests by a controversial archbishop. The women had refused to give up their claim to be priests. The seven, from Germany, Austria and the United States, were ordained in June in Austria during a ceremony led by Argentine cleric Romulo Antonio Braschi, who is from a breakaway church."

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2173868.stm


#6

Awww that’s cute.

Who ordained the bishops? I sure hope it was the local cardinal…otherwise there is no apostolic lineage! Oh boy…


#7

I think we can say with almost an absolute certainty that they weren’t masses. Just because a bishop told her to do so doesn’t make it licit or correct. Episcopal ordination doesn’t give anyone the ability to change the truth.


#8

There wouldn’t be an apostolic lineage anyway, because the women can’t have been ordained. This is exactly the problem, for example, with the uhm…how are those called that spit away from the church after Vaticanum I:? In German, we call them “Altkatholiken”. They have female “priests” and could habe female bishops if they wanted to. They still maintain apostolic sucession but will cease to do so as soon as they “ordain” female bishops - they would develop a line without apostolic sucession because the woman can’t have a valid ordination, therefore, the priests/bishops she would ordain wouldn’t be validly ordained, too.

Boy, many “valids/ordains” in one sentence… hope, I got my pint across anyway.


#9

Actually, it depends on the country. Some Old Catholic churches in the Union of Utrecht don’t ordain women. Broadly speaking, I think it’s an East/West divide (with Eastern European countries being the ones to ordain only men). It’s similar to the situation in the Anglican Communion (with whom the Old Catholics are in full communion), where individual Provinces (national churches) decide whether to ordain women to the diaconate, priesthood, episcopate, or not at all.


#10

I file such websites in the Alternate Universe folder, right alongside malemothers.com, squarecircles.org and flying monkeyswithlightningboltsshootingoutoftheirbums.oz

JSA+


#11

But what about deaconesses, cant they be ordained?

Priscilla and Pheobe being 2 deaconesses discribed in the bible (Romans 16:1-2).

And agan in Philippians 4:1-3 more deaconesses are mentioned.

Deacons are ordained according to Acts 6:1-7 by the laying of the hands (like any other presbyter). Can we really say that Pheobe was not really ordained? or that her ordination was invalid because she was a woman? Was the bible wrong to call her a deaconess?

While I agree with the proposition that a women should not be allowed into the priesthood, but I find some of the arguments used in this thread a little bit strange.

The most offensive post I read was where 1 poster decided to compare women with dogs and state, it is just as good to ordain a dog as it is a woman. I find such a statement totally inappropriate and theologically wrong.

I’m just a little confused as to how the RCC sees ordination? Is it only the presbyter that is “technically” ordained?


#12

I wasn’t exactly thrilled when they allowed young ladies to serve as "altar people." I know the Chruch said it was ok, but it just looks odd to me. :shrug: But female priests???

I know, I’m just old fashioned.


#13

It’s impossible to “allow” a woman to celebrate the Mass.


#14

Women have never been ordained in the Church. The passage you cited supports that fact:

*Act 6:1 And in those days, the number of the disciples increasing, there arose a murmuring of the Greeks against the Hebrews, for that their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
Act 6:2 Then the twelve, calling together the multitude of the disciples, said: It is not reason that we should leave the word of God and serve tables.
Act 6:3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
Act 6:4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer and to the ministry of the word.
Act 6:5 And the saying was liked by all the multitude. And **they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip and Prochorus and Nicanor, and Timon and Parmenas and Nicolas, a proselyte of Antioch. **
Act 6:6 These they set before the apostles: and they praying, imposed hands upon them.
Act 6:7 And the word of the Lord increased: and the number of the disciples was multiplied in Jerusalem exceedingly. A great multitude also of the priests obeyed the faith.
*
Your entire confusion stems from trying to equate deaconesses with male deacons. I hope Pope Benedict XVI comes out with an Ordinatio Sacerdotalis for the diaconate, sooner rather than later.


#15

Well, the website claims them as belonging to their group. It calls them "the Danube Seven."
romancatholicwomenpriests.org/history.htm


#16

Here is a good Catholic article about deaconesses: newadvent.org/cathen/04651a.htm

In short they were not members of the clergy and their function was not the same as of male deacons (major orders that require ordination).

While I agree with the proposition that a women should not be allowed into the priesthood, but I find some of the arguments used in this thread a little bit strange.

Please, tell us…

The most offensive post I read was where 1 poster decided to compare women with dogs and state, it is just as good to ordain a dog as it is a woman. I find such a statement totally inappropriate and theologically wrong.

That was me…:smiley:

Of couse I was joking when I said it, but while I wasn’t completelly serious it is still true. I don’t find it thologically wrong. While dogs and women are of course different, on the end of the day the sacrament (like any other sacrament) has several requirement and one of them is valid matter (baptised male). Females, dogs, cute furry bunies, oak trees are not baptised males and thus the matter would be invalid and ordination could not take place. In this sense what I said is correct.

I’m just a little confused as to how the RCC sees ordination? Is it only the presbyter that is “technically” ordained?

Would this help you? newadvent.org/cathen/11279a.htm


#17

<<Who ordained the bishops? I sure hope it was the local cardinal…otherwise there is no apostolic lineage! Oh boy…>>

It’s not necessary for a bishop to be ordained by a cardinal.


#18

Note that ordination now only applies at all to major orders, and the clerical state now applies only to deacons, priests, and bishops.

The Minor Ordinations referenced in the article are essentially abandoned in the Roman praxis, and even when used are “Instituted” and not “Ordained”…

The issue of Deaconesses isn’t quite so cut and dried;in the early church, they specifically baptised women, and baptism was a role reserved to the ordained.

Note that the 4th coucil (Chalcedon, canon XV) does refer to ordaining women as deaconesses (minimum age 40, virgin or widow, and anathematized if they then marry).

The first council does mention deaconesses as layity, but of a heretical sect.

The 7th council opens the deaconess up to the wives of clerics.

It is, however, banned early that women be presidents/presbyters.

We know that Phoebe was a preacher, and a deaconess.

(loads of stuff from ccel.org/fathers.html)


#19

The term Deaconess was honorific if my history is correct. They were usually the wives of deacons and would help with some tasks that did not require ordination. (i.e. submersive baptism of women in white robes, this is to preserve modesty and one does not need to be ordained to baptize though it is preferred.)


#20

The early church did not baptize in white robes they baptized as one comes in to the world. The white was given as a sign after the baptism.
They also use to hold you there for a good long while as well.


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