RCIA Elect question about the Renewal Baptismal Vows


#1

Hello,

I am an Elect set to be confirmed and recieve first communion this Saturday. Very excited!

I read over my parish's guide to the Easter Vigil, and I'm a little concerned about the scripted response to the renewal of baptismal promises. It's "We believe" instead of "I do." I've tried searching for a standard form on the USCCB and vatican websites and can't seem to find one.

"We believe" doesn't seem like an adequate answer to yes or no questions, especially not the first ones in the order of renewals. I think I'm concerned because my current priest mentioned conversationally that this was the "tradition" at this parish, and I've attended lectures with the Priest Emeritus of the parish (23 years at this parish before current priest) who claimed that there was no such thing as sin. In that light, it seems like "we believe" is merely a scapegoat to deflect having to affirm the rejection of satan, sin, and obedience to the Magesterium and Papal Office.

Any thoughts?


#2

So he says, Do you reject Satan? And you reply, We believe? That doesn't even make sense. Or are you just answering that way for the Creed questions -- Do you believe in God, etc.? I don't know if the latter is an option or not, but either way, it doesn't invalidate your initiation or the sacraments you will receive. I'd offer up your sufferings and let it go.


#3

Yeah that was my way of thinking, it's not a sensible answer. Do you think it would be inappropriate to say "I do" instead of "We believe," regardless of the script?


#4

[quote="vish1990, post:3, topic:320424"]
Yeah that was my way of thinking, it's not a sensible answer. Do you think it would be inappropriate to say "I do" instead of "We believe," regardless of the script?

[/quote]

I would say "I do" instead of "We believe". I can imagine, since Easter mass is one of the masses that C&Es go to, you won't be the only one.

You won't be wrong to say "I do". You may sound not in union with your parish, but at least you would be in union with the rest of the Church.


#5

I finally found the official procedure here:

sanctamissa.org/en/resources/books-1962/rituale-romanum/12-baptism-of-adults-rite.html

The Rituale Romanum is very specific about the Rite; it is actually more than "I do," it's a complete re-stating of the question in the affirmative form. Is this something worth bringing up to the Parish priest?


#6

[quote="vish1990, post:1, topic:320424"]
Hello,

I am an Elect set to be confirmed and recieve first communion this Saturday. Very excited!

I read over my parish's guide to the Easter Vigil, and I'm a little concerned about the scripted response to the renewal of baptismal promises. It's "We believe" instead of "I do." I've tried searching for a standard form on the USCCB and vatican websites and can't seem to find one.

"We believe" doesn't seem like an adequate answer to yes or no questions, especially not the first ones in the order of renewals. I think I'm concerned because my current priest mentioned conversationally that this was the "tradition" at this parish, and I've attended lectures with the Priest Emeritus of the parish (23 years at this parish before current priest) who claimed that there was no such thing as sin. In that light, it seems like "we believe" is merely a scapegoat to deflect having to affirm the rejection of satan, sin, and obedience to the Magesterium and Papal Office.

Any thoughts?

[/quote]

If your "class" is using the Blue RCIA rites book it has not been updated to the new translation of the Nicean Creed yet. that's all. Possibly on the day they will use the new translation from the new missal.

During the vigil with the "renunciation of sin"you get to say "I do" (which is in the Blue Book).

come the night - just say "I do" anyway ;):thumbsup:


#7

[quote="vish1990, post:5, topic:320424"]
I finally found the official procedure here:

sanctamissa.org/en/resources/books-1962/rituale-romanum/12-baptism-of-adults-rite.html

The Rituale Romanum is very specific about the Rite; it is actually more than "I do," it's a complete re-stating of the question in the affirmative form. Is this something worth bringing up to the Parish priest?

[/quote]

The Rituale Romanum is not the appropriate book. The renewal of baptismal promises is part of the Easter Vigil Mass, and so would be part of the Missale Romanum. Also, that link is to the 1962 version of the book.

The proper response is "I do." Here are the two opions:

Priest: Do you renounce Satan?
All: I do.
Priest: and all his works?
All: I do.
Priest: and all his empty show?
All: I do.
or:
Priest: Do you renounce sin, so as to live in the freedom of the children of God?
All: I do.
Priest: Do you renounce the lure of evil, so that sin may have no mastery over you?
All: I do.
Priest: Do you renounce Satan, the author and prince of sin?
All: I do.

This is from the Roman Missal, The Easter Vigil section, #55.

There is another possible option depending on the bishop's conference, based on the Apostles Creed, but the responses there are "I do" as well. I can copy it here if you like, but the reference is the same--it's also in #55, so the priest might want to look it up in his own copy.

The Tradition of the Church trumps the tradition of the parish. :) So I would probably say "I do," but not loudly or aggressively. That is assuming you can't get the priest to change it, which in fact I do assume, because he has probably gotten the programs printed up already. But you could fight for it to be fixed for next year.

--Jen


#8

[quote="vish1990, post:1, topic:320424"]
Hello,

I am an Elect set to be confirmed and recieve first communion this Saturday. Very excited!

I read over my parish's guide to the Easter Vigil, and I'm a little concerned about the scripted response to the renewal of baptismal promises. It's "We believe" instead of "I do." I've tried searching for a standard form on the USCCB and vatican websites and can't seem to find one.

"We believe" doesn't seem like an adequate answer to yes or no questions, especially not the first ones in the order of renewals. I think I'm concerned because my current priest mentioned conversationally that this was the "tradition" at this parish, and I've attended lectures with the Priest Emeritus of the parish (23 years at this parish before current priest) who claimed that there was no such thing as sin. In that light, it seems like "we believe" is merely a scapegoat to deflect having to affirm the rejection of satan, sin, and obedience to the Magesterium and Papal Office.

Any thoughts?

[/quote]

I would ask this directly, pointing out that the official response as far as you know is I do.

The Profession of Faith is a different story, because the Apostle's Creed says "I believe" and the Credo of Nicaea starts with pisteuomen (We believe).

But when they ask: "Do you renounce Satan?" You can't answer "We believe." :confused: Seriously, even if they insist that that's the answer, talk to a priest about it, because it's nonsense.


#9

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