Re: Blood of Christ & instrumental music in scripture

Hi, if this is in the wrong forum, please move it to the right one, I picked this one since I need scripturally based passages. A former friend is trying to “save me from the evil of Catholicism” since I converted in the past & believe I am right where I need to be. She is a member of the Church of Christ (NT church) & says that wine is not acceptable (Blood of Christ for us), that only fruit of the vine as in grape juice is permitted (but yet she agrees with the unleavened bread). To me this is that they are making things the way they want to interpret them. How do I argue that since I was pretty sure that it was wine at the last supper?

Also, is there any scripture to show that musical instruments were permitted in the New Testament? I am wanting to try to show her that Catholicism is not wrong.

Thank you for your time.

There are umpteen threads already on the wine vs. grape juice idea.

But as for the last, try Ephesians 5:19

“addressing one another (in) psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and playing to the Lord in your hearts,”

Not only does it specifically say “playing” but the psalms themselves include notations for various musical instruments. If the Apostle was directing followers, who were primarily of Jewish extraction, to sing the psalms but not use instruments, this would be the place where you would excpect a giant “BUT ignore the part about instruments”.

She is a member of the Church of Christ (NT church) & says that wine is not acceptable (Blood of Christ for us), that only fruit of the vine as in grape juice is permitted

This is fairly simple to address, from a historical perspective:

1869

Dr. Thomas Bramwell Welch, a physician and dentist by profession, successfully pasteurizes Concord grape juice to produce an “unfermented sacramental wine” for fellow parishioners at his church in Vineland, N.J., where he is communion steward. His achievement marks the beginning of the processed fruit juice industry.

Once grapes are pressed, the juice naturally starts to ferment immediately. In order to have non-fermented grape juice, it is necessary to either pasteurize it. However, that process was unknown before the 19th century.

Jesus could not have used wine that was not either fermented or in the process of fermenting (i.e. mustum, which is acceptable for liturgical use).

Of course, there are strong scriptural arguments, as well (Jesus turning water into wine, Jesus coming to fulfill the law - the last supper was a seder meal at which Jews still use wine today).

[quote=Corki] “addressing one another (in) psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and playing to the Lord in your hearts,”
[/quote]

What version of the Scriptures are you reffering to? I’ve looked at several different versions, and find that most read “make melody in your heart” where you have “playing” (the Darby Bible translated “playing” as “chanting”). Of the approximately 20 different English versions I looked at (including the Douay-Rheims), not one uses the word “playing” (just looking for some clarification here, especially since you’re advising katrntogo that this is a valid argument).

I would suggest that you point out that musical instruments were used in the Temple worship (David had a lot of harps made for this purpose, and look at the dedication ceremony with Solomon - musical instruments all over the place!). Once she agrees that this is true, ask her to show you where the NT church abolished this practice (at least Corki was close on this one).

As far as the wine/grape juice question, I think SonCatcher summed it up nicely. There is no restriction in Scripture on the use of wine, EXCEPT when used in excess! I even had a doctor recommend that I have a glass of red wine with my supper to help my cholestrol (now if I can just get my benefits package to cover that, I’d be set!).

In regard to your friend trying to “save me from the evil of Catholicism”, as one who came out of Catholicism, I have a grerat deal of advice for you, but as it is off topic, I will not go into it here. My purpose is not so much to help you show her you (and the catholic church) are right, but to show her that her interpretation of the Scriptures is not correct (I can recommend some good web sites for her (and you) if you’re interested).

Since musical instruments are played in heaven, they must be acceptable to the Lord.

Rev. 5:8 …twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp
Rev. 15:2 …standing beside the sea of glass with harps of God in their hands

Actually, in Revelations 18, the abolishment of musical instruments seems to be a punishment for sin:

Rev 18:21-22 * Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, "So shall Babylon the great city be thrown down with violence, and shall be found no more; and the sound of harpers and minstrels, of flute players and trumpeters, shall be heard in thee no more;*

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