Re: Born Again? Scripture Jn.3;5-8


#1

Jn. 3:5-8 reads,
Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

Jhn 3:6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Jhn 3:7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

Jhn 3:8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

Without spiritual birth,a person cannot enter the kingdom of heaven, There are different views on what this passages mean.
How do you understand these passages? When is a person born of the spirit? Please include scripture. :slight_smile:

God bless,
jean8


#2

Why do the two events have to be seperate.


#3

the Catholic sacraments of initiation, baptism and confirmation, which are so closely allied they are not separate in action even when separated temporally, confer baptism in water and the Holy Spirit that John speaks of.


#4

This passage has always been interpreted as meaning Sacramental Baptism for the last 2000 years of Church magisterial teaching. By the Apostolic Fathers, the Early Church Fathers, the later Church Fathers, the Councils of the Church. A person is Born of the Spirit in Baptism when they receive the Holy Spirit for the first time, they receive the Spririt in some way in every other Sacrament and specifically in the Sacrament of Confirmation which completes Initiation into the Mystical Body of Christ.


#5

Here are all of the scriptural verses that link water baptism and the Holy Spirit. I hope you find them helpful

ACTS 2:38
And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

ACTS 10:48
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.

ACTS 19:1-7
While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have never even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John’s baptism.” And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve of them in all.

ACTS 22:16
And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

MATTHEW 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

JOHN 3:5
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

MARK 16:16
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

ROMANS 6: 3-4
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

GALATIANS 3:27
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

COLOSSIANS 2:11-12
In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of Christ;
and you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead

EPHESIANS 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

TITUS 3:4-8
but when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit,

Heb 10:22
let us approach with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

1 PETER 3:21
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

OT-- Baptism prefigured
Ezk 36:25-28
I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you; and I will remove from your body the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. I will put my spirit within you, and make you follow my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances.


#6

ALL Christians previous to the deformation in the 16th century believed this to mean water baptism, nothing more, nothing less. normatively.
what, were they all wrong?


#7

If being born of the flesh can happen without the person’s awareness of it, why would being born of the spirit be any different?


#8

Because being born of the flesh comes from the union of two parents.

Being born of the Spirit comes from Faith and Obedience to Jesus’ commandments.


#9

Baptism is being born again of water and the spirit.


#10

Also a good note most people when teaching this forget about what jesus said about this in verse 22.

After this, Jesus and his disciples went into the region of Judea, where he spent some time with them baptizing.
23
John was also baptizing in Aenon near Salim, 11 because there was an abundance of water there, and people came to be baptized

The whole chapter is about water baptism. The subject didn’t take a u turn after verse 21. The subject remains the same.

Hope this helps

God bless.


#11

A verse no fundamentalist has ever properly explained:

John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

Why did Jesus expect Nicodemus to know what He was talking about?


#12

This is a really good point, and it illustrates the importance of appreciating that nothing written in scripture is by accident or is to be taken as merely incidental.

As a teacher Nicodemus should have been well aware of the meaning and significance of all ritual washings. Moreover, Nicodemus should have been aware of the prefiguring of water baptism in the OT.

OT-- Baptism prefigured
Ezk 36:25-28
I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you; and I will remove from your body the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. I will put my spirit within you, and make you follow my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances. Then you shall live in the land that I gave to your ancestors; and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.


#13

Isn’t baptism being “born again in the spirit?” I was supporting infant baptism.


#14

This is scarcely possible until the New Birth. We are remade through the new birth. We aren’t the “old man” anymore but the “new man”. I.e., we are back to the same position Adam and Eve were before the fall. Eternal life is once again our inheritance and, lest we sin, we shall continue on to perfection and oneness with God which is God’s intention for us.

CDL


#15

Gregory and bookgirl, what is wrong with what I wrote. Aren’t we baptized because of Faith and Obedience to Christ’s commandments.

Faith in His Teaching that we are Baptized into New Life.
Obedience to His Teaching that we must be Baptized in order to inherit this New Life.


#16

Of course, the sacrament is offered and received based upon our trust in Christ. We are just trying to figure out why you started the thread.

CDL


#17

Uhhhhhhh… I didn’t start the thread.


#18

When he has died and risen together with Christ !

And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 2:6)

God bless you to !


#19

I don’t think that anything is necessarily wrong with what you wrote. We are baptized because of OTHERS’ faith and obedience to Christ’s commandments, or if we are baptized as adults then yes, our own faith and obedience comes into that.

But the person’s faith and obedience is not mandatory b/c a 5 week old infant is not aware of either. This does nto mean that the infant has not right to be baptised.


#20

Sorry. Mea Culpa.:blush:


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