Has anybody ever asked a Priest, Deacon, or a Parish Officer person with influence at a parish that does not have Latin Mass about having one? And if you have what did they say in response? I am wondering if it was negative, positive, or spin? I have a parish where the Latin Mass is given, but there are others in my area that does not and I would like to see everybody have it. So I want to see what responses there might be.
My parish does not have a Latin Mass only because there is only one Priest in my Diocese that says it. There has been an overwhelming want for the Latin Mass but talking to our Priest there is really nothing we can do about it.
I asked a recently ordained priest (he is only 30 years old) this question indirectly. I asked him if he knew how to say the Tridentine Mass. He said no. (he does say a very reverent OF) So I asked if it would be possible for him to learn, he said yes, but it would take him time to. I should ask him again if he would ever be really interesting in learn the EF. I have heard some of the seminarians now are being trained in saying both forms, which I think is beautiful!
From my experience the response is a big no, but for different reasons.
Some of the reasons include:[list]
*] The EF is not in large demand in the parish.
*] There is only one priest available and he is already doing so much that he cannot accommodate an EF mass nor would he have the time to learn how to do the EF Mass. Not to mention he is already saying more masses than Canon Law allows (don’t worry He received special dispensation from Rome to do this).
*]There is not enough money to pay for the vestments, Altar Missal, altar rails, etc.
*] They are opposed to saying the EF.[/list]
The good news is the last reason listed was very rare in my experiences, however the bad news is our poor priests are struggling so hard just to keep their OF Masses going. They need our support and prayers!
I have never understood why the Latin Mass was not continued along with the changes of Vatican II. What was so difficult about alternating the Masses back then? What happened to all the beautiful vestments? Were they just thrown out? Catholics should know what the Latin Mass is, what incense smells like, how it is conducted, and what Gregorian chant sounds like in a church. Right now I’m singing hymns that are Protestant hymns. What about our traditions?
we ran into all the same arguements so we built the Altar rails, bought the vestments used (true, we had to make many of the individual pieces such as chalice veils and maniples). We even found a Dominican priest that was willing to come in once a month for a low Mass. So that was our start (over 3 years ago). This spring we found two priests that were learning the TLM from an FSSP priest. These two agreed to celebrate the TLM for us each month as our Dominican was being transfered to Alasaka. Different members of our group purchased various items. The wife & I bought candlesticks and crucifix. I began making altar frontals. Have one for each season now. Others bought candles, the Red Missalettes, Sanctus bells, etc.
Working together as a group, we were able to get things done. This effort began back in 2006. Our first Mass was in 2008.
Keep the faith and get to work.
I asked about having the LM said at my parish. I asked the person on the “commision for Liturgy and Worship” and got a very negative response! He said (in a very stern and awful, to me, tone) “THAT would *never *happen here”.
I had a feeling that I would get a response of ‘no’, but thought it would be at least half way nice. but coem to find out this guy and his wife (who lectors, altar serves on occasion and sometimes will be a EM) is quite pro-choice and pro- contraception and other beliefs that go against the Church.
I don’t know why they even bother with being Catholic. But they are and have been in leadership roles at the parish for at least 15 if not more years. There aren’t very many young adults or couples at this parish that I know, because mostly they decided to go to different parishes rather than stick around this (our local parish) and try to make things better.
There are other parishes who are less ‘liberal’ but its 20-30 minute drive (hard to do with the kids- my son hates his carseat). My husband doesn’t like going to this church because its “too protestanty” (his words) and we both come away from Mass feeling worse than we did before it! Not a good feeling when we have attended other Masses elsewhere and come away feeling so uplifted and good.
The priest is a good man. I once met with him and he asked my views on why the young adults and couples chose to go elsewhere- I told him what I thought and I do think he ‘heard’ me but doesn’t know what/how to change it without alienating the older ones who like it liberal-y.
I don’t want to bring up the couple by name to the priest and point out their non-catholic beliefs (even though they have made public stances about it!!), one he probably already knows, and 2- what could be done? not much I suspect.
ok, sorry this becamse longer than I thought.
That’s awesome news for your Corsair! Where is your Church? I’m aware of the North American Martyrs parish but haven’t heard of other parishes celebrating in the EF in the area. Also I have not been as fortunate as yourself to run into those willing or able to help fund the EF, you have truly been blessed.
Another part of the problem in getting a TLM in a parish is approaching the “Committee”.
A parish priest with any backbone at all, will establish who is in control soon after he arrives. We were fortunate to have had such a priest. I was at the Council meeting when the priest reminded the members that the Council served at his pleasure and were “advisory” only.
That went over like some foreign object in a punch bowl. But he enforced it and within two weeks things quieted down. Too many priest abdicate their authority to a Council or committee.
A smart, gutsey priest can utilize the talents of a committee to the parishes advantage and not make enemies.
Keep the Faith
Our parish is St. Francis Xavier near Toledo, WA. Mass is 3rd Sunday of each month at 4:00pm.
All of this can be done licitly with the post-Vatican II mass and in fact happens in many places.
That’s not a good argument, because in all actuality, it doesn’t happen very often at all.
With that said, yes, I have approached my parish pastor about having some sort of Latin Mass, whether that be OF or EF. He was very nice, but very blunt, in saying no. He’s a very good priest, and I pretty much knew he was going to say no anyways. Perhaps something about his order prevents him from doing EF masses. He’s a Redemptorist, along with the other two priests. His main reason was that there wouldn’t be a lot of lay support for it. Which I can agree with. I don’t think in my parish or anywhere in this diocese that there would be much active resentment or hate towards the EF as there would be in other dioceses, though, which I think makes it convenient for those who prefer the EF to make their case.
The Diocese of Charleston was very slow and very…conservative…about implementing changes in the sixties and seventies, from what I gather. There isn’t much crazy liberalism in the Church here. The Catholic Church in the South is different from the Catholic Church in the Midwest and the Northeast. There’s pockets of EF-support everywhere, as there are pockets of EF-hate everywhere. But, I’d venture to say that most people could care less either way here in SC if some of their Catholic brothers and sisters want to have an EF mass. I suppose that since there isn’t as much in the way of uptightness and coldness (personality-wise) here as there is in other regions of the country, coupled with a conservative, and generally correct, implementation of the Council in this Diocese, has led people here to have a blase attitude to the EF.
You might want to check these times and locations out but I found the following;
STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA
Sees in the Territory: The State is coterminous with the Diocese of Charleston.
– DIOCESE OF CHARLESTON –
Sections A Every-Sunday traditional masses.
Stella Maris Catholic Church
1204 Middle St
Sullivans Island, SC 29482, United States
Celebrant: Msgr. Lawrence McInerny, JCL, pastor
Masses: every Sunday 5:30 p.m.
First Fridays of each month at 4 p.m.
Section B: Other than every-Sunday traditional latin masses:
PRINCE OF PEACE CHURCH
1209 Brushy Creek Road Taylors, SC 29687-4103
Celebrants: Very Reverend Father Steven Brovey, V.F.and
Father Robert Fromageot, FSSP,
Masses: Second and Third Sunday of each month. either at 5:30 p.m.
or 6:00 p.m.,and is being finalized.
St. Mary’s Catholic Church
125 Hampton Boulevard
Greenville, South Carolina 29601
Celebrant : Father Timothy Huffman
The Traditional Latin mass will be celebrated at 3:00 p.m. on the following dates:
January 27th ; April 28th ; July 28th ; October 27th .
Church of the Good Shepherd
809 Calhoun Street, P.O. Box 1298
Columbia, S.C. 29202
Celebrant: Fr. William D. Ladkau
Tel.: (803) 765-1334
Fax: (803) 765-2208
Mass: First Sunday of every month at 1:00 p.m. ( Priests- FSSP).
I agree with your post. Let’s consider the word “hate” and the word “resentment”. Why? We’re talking about the Mass. Also Vatican II apparently desired to bring the laity into these decisions so if some members of the Church want an EF Mass now why not develop the interest and, for once, support it. We should not be arguing about this. It was my experience 50 plus years ago that the laity was not consulted regarding these changes. It was done, period. Because of the way things were handled, many left. There is nothing to fear from an EF Mass. Fifty years ago, most would have heartily accepted the Mass being said in English. None ever thought the whole Mass would be changed.
It is an excellent argument because:
1- it does happen. Daily in two places within driving distance of me.
2- it is in fact mandated by Sacrosanctum Concilium
3- it would be easier to implement: same rubrics as OF mass
4- just because it doesn’t happen often doesn’t mean it is irrelevant.
5-the fact that it is rare is an issue of disobedience, not relevance.
We could simply demand obedience to Sacrosanctum Concilium. Then all of the elements in the post I responded to would be satisfied.
Our abbey’s church is packed every Sunday in fact because we have a reverent OF Mass with incense, bells, Latin, Gregorian chant, sacre silence, etc.
There is much more involved in just asking for a mass. A small groups in a parish must also be willing to provide the finacial recouces to do it. There are expenses that, unless a parish had unlimted funds and there are not any of those would have to encur. We can start witht he training of the priest, and deacons to be able to properly serve the mass, this would include the learing of Latin as well as the Rite itself. There is the then then purchase of books, vestments, altar appointments, vessels that are required to celebrated the mass.
All this has to be weighed against other more pressing needs in a parish.
It would be better if there were a large enough group in a diocese, to pool their resources, approach the ordianary and offer to build a parish for the celebration of the mass.
In other words, put your time talents and treasure were your mouth is.
That’s cool. That’s great that it happens near you. I’m jealous.
But I’m saying that this doesn’t happen often. You can’t just go down the street to neighborhood parish in most towns and cities and see this stuff happening.
Does it happen? Yes. Do some kids get a perfect score on the SAT? Yes.
But not very often. It’s not irrelevant just because it doesn’t happen very often. I’m complaining that it doesn’t.
Saying something does happen that doesn’t happen very often doesn’t have much of an effect argument-wise.
In this situation, I think demanding obedience to Sacrosanctum Concilium would be great. But who knows how long it will be before it will happen.
Not the Poles and Hispanics.
Pretty much the same happened to me when I dared to even speak the word. They looked at me like I have two heads. Ive been in the church about 12 years now and always wondered about the old mass. The level of resentment I was getting made me seek it out. Ive voted with my feet and now mostly attend a very good EF mass in a neighboring county. I dont dispute that the OF is valid at all but I just prefer the reverence of the EF. No matter what eloquent words I can come up with I cannot convince the EF haters. They dont get it. I still attend my home parish now and then but I dont miss it. No more protestant songs or dancing girls or people receiving communion like peanuts at a ballgame. For me its like the OF was my starter mass and now Im at the adult Mass. Theres a reason its called Extraordinary.
I recently asked my local pastor if he would ever ben interested in offering the Holy Sacrifice in the Extraordinary Form. He smiled and said he wouldn’t know how to. Then I gifted him an instructional DVD for clergy and seminarians :D! He seems quite interested. Hopefully I won’t be travelling out of diocese for Mass for much longer.
The point is if Vatican II wanted to include the laity and the laity was asking for the EF Mass to be said in English, Spanish, Polish, etc. why not accomodate them but they didn’t. The Mass was changed to NO and that was said in whatever language.