Ready to give-up on chastity


#21

[quote="losh14, post:17, topic:240027"]

. Guys get murdered over things like this.

Sign 4:

Crikey, man, do you want to be that guy in the kids' lives that their mom sleeps with when their daddy isn't home?

For the immediate situation:
1) This girl will only break your heart.
2) What if you get her pregnant? Do you want that burden before you're done with college? Can you support her and her two other kids?
3) You're setting a really bad example for how her kids should relate to men.
4) Her boyfriend will kick your butt.
5) I will kick your butt.

For the future:
1) Trust me, as a guy who had 9 women before he had his wife, you don't want this baggage. You don't want to have unwelcome sexual thoughts about girls you broke off with long ago. You don't want to have a masturbation habit (which is really easy to develop after a relationship of non-stop sex ends). You don't want to have to confess this. You don't want to have to think of yourself differently, or look at girls differently. And you really, really don't want want to have to tell your wife that she's not the first lover you had, just the next.
2) The natural consequences: babies, stds, jealous boyfriends. Broken condom? Scary. Missed period? I'd rather have my car stolen. Shotgun wedding to become stepdad to some other guy's two kids - do you really want this for yourself, Nick? Do you really want to have to face these choices?
3) Hey, did I ever tell you how much it is to have an STD test? They take a q-tip, a really big one, and they shove it up your urethra. Might as well douse the sucker in rubbing alcohol and light it on fire, that's what it feels like. And to get the test so your parents don't find out, you can't go to your doctor because it shows up on insurance. You get to go to Planned Parenthood. You get to cross the picket lines of anti-abortion protestors and sit in the waiting room with pregnant 15-year-olds who are going to murder their babies that day. Nick, that sucks. That really sucks. You don't want this.
3) The emotional consequences: girls who cling to you and follow you - as this one surely will. Girls who see sex a promise guys make with their bodies, not just their mouths. And they're right - for a girl to let a guy be her lover is to let him physically inside her body. That's no small feat, that's not insignificant or "just sex" no matter who tells you that. Casual sex is a myth, Nick, unless your heart is so calloused by rejection and failed relationships that all you think you're worth is seven minutes of arousal, seven seconds of pleasure and a lot of time to think about it afterwards.

C'mon man, you're better than this. You're certainly worth more than what this girl with the two kids and the live-in boyfriend and the unlimited text message plan can offer you.

sigh.

If I come off feeling harsh, I apologize, but I feel like I'm talking to an 18-year-old version of myself. And I wish I had, man.

:clapping::clapping::clapping::sad_yes: Great post, like a nice bucket of cold water over his mixed up head.

(BTW, some of us are not "protesters" at PP, we are praying and sidewalk counseling. In fact, most Catholics do not do the type of protesting that has been done in the past, because we know it doesn't work. We stand and pray our rosaries, and give out information if we can access the clients. But your point is valid - going to PP does suck, and that's just IF his gf doesn't really get pregnant and decide to abort his child.)
[/quote]


#22

[quote="Nick_89, post:1, topic:240027"]
I thought about posting this in another thread. However, I didn’t want to hijack the whole thread so I thought I’d make my own.

 The thread was titled “How to love a nonvirgin”. It basically consisted of a guy asking how he could get over his girlfriend’s sexual history. He admitted it was his problem and that he was just being “insecure”. Every response he got basically boiled down to the same message: Get over it! Not a single person congratulated him on waiting for his future wife. It was as if it didn’t matter at all. 

 Then his girlfriend joined the thread and told everyone about how hard this had been on their relationship. She described it as a “dark cloud”.  Everyone seemed to sympathize with her and tell her she hadn’t done anything wrong. She (the gf) even seemed to wish that he’d lost it already, that way it wouldn’t be an issue. 

 Here’s where I fit into this. I’m 21 years-old, a college student, and up until now, a devout Catholic. I had no problem staying chaste in high school. The past few years, in college, I’ve tried to actively avoid situations where I would have a hard time staying chaste. I never had any doubt that I was doing the right thing. However, after reading the thread I mentioned above, I’m not so sure anymore. Quite frankly, if that’s what I have to look forward to, I see very little reason to remain chaste. 

  I have no idea if or when I’ll ever get married. One thing I know is that the chance of marrying a woman that waited for me is almost non-existent. I also know, based on the responses to the above-mentioned thread, that if I were to become sexually active, I would always be welcomed back to the Church. If that’s the case, why stay chaste in the first place? It doesn’t seem to matter to anybody anyway, including people who call themselves “Catholics”. 

  Several months ago, I met a girl at work who I’ve become good friends with. I’ve never wanted her to be anymore than a friend. She has two kids and just recently broke-up with her boyfriend. After we met and talked initially, she became nearly obsessed with me. I’m not even exaggerating when I say that she must have sent me 100 text messages everyday for two weeks. She asked me early-on if I had ever “gotten any”. I told her “No, I’m saving myself for marriage.” At first she seemed confused, but eventually she said that she respected my decision. Nevertheless, she started begging me to lose my virginity to her. She said she’s never been with a guy who wasn’t already very experienced and that she wants to know what it’s like. She’s even invited me to her apartment on several occasions when her boyfriend wasn’t home. Up until now, I’ve always said “no”. Now, however, I’m thinking about saying “yes”.  

  My question is simple: Why shouldn’t I say “yes”? If I’m the only person who cares if I stay chaste or not, why should I? The impression I get from this forum is that saving myself for marriage is more of a liability than anything else. If that’s the case, what’s the point? Can anybody give me one good reason, other than “because the Church/Bible says so”?

[/quote]

I understand your frustration. Despite the adjective "Catholic" attached to it, this forum is the WORST possible place for a male virgin to find support. Trust me, as someone who is in the "40 year old virgin" demographic, I learned that the hard way.

I will only add that you should try again to return to the practice of "avoiding situations" as you posted above. Avoid that woman at work; she is "Trouble" with a capital "T". Tell her emphatically to leave you alone. If she won't, then that can constitute sexual harassment, so gather together any evidence (document times, places, witnesses, texts, etc.) so that you can file a complaint against her with your HR department. Better for her to lose her job than for you to lose your soul.


#23

[quote="Norseman82, post:22, topic:240027"]
Despite the adjective "Catholic" attached to it, this forum is the WORST possible place for a male virgin to find support.

[/quote]

Not the worst, but the posters here often do more harm than good on this subject, it seems.


#24

[quote="SwizzleStick, post:3, topic:240027"]
all I see is regret that she already lost hers to someone else.

[/quote]

She didn't lose it, she gave it away.


#25

[quote="Nick_89, post:1, topic:240027"]
Here’s where I fit into this. I’m 21 years-old, a college student, and up until now, a devout Catholic. I had no problem staying chaste in high school. The past few years, in college, I’ve tried to actively avoid situations where I would have a hard time staying chaste. I never had any doubt that I was doing the right thing. However, after reading the thread I mentioned above, I’m not so sure anymore. Quite frankly, if that’s what I have to look forward to, I see very little reason to remain chaste.

  I have no idea if or when I’ll ever get married. One thing I know is that the chance of marrying a woman that waited for me is almost non-existent. I also know, based on the responses to the above-mentioned thread, that if I were to become sexually active, I would always be welcomed back to the Church. If that’s the case, why stay chaste in the first place? It doesn’t seem to matter to anybody anyway, including people who call themselves “Catholics”. 

[/quote]

Hi Nick. Welcome to the Forums; you've compelled me to contribute to a thread, which I rarely do despite so much lurking. I feel very strongly about this issue and think your question is fair, though your perspective quite short-sighted.
Firstly, let me say as a twentysomething Catholic girl myself, I respect and applaud your efforts to avoid sexual activity thus far, especially in a college/university setting. While not singularly indicative of a person's faith life, such a decision can signal a spiritual maturity, or, at the very least, a commitment to one's faith despite an overwhelming opposition from every element of our contemporary culture. However - I truly believe you need to develop your reasons for striving for chastity, as opposed to virginity. You should lack sexual experience not because of some disconnected ideal you feel "the Bible says," but because you possess a deep comprehension of the sexual union and you respect its inherent dignity and beauty, and know it's unfit, unfair and unhealthy to engage in something so grand, so carelessly (not to mention the gravity of the sin involved there).

I passionately encourage you to develop your understanding of chastity and, conversely, your understanding of sex and its role in a sacramental marriage. Actively seek out this understanding, be it through perusing these very forums or reading books or online texts on chastity (by von Hildebrand or John Paul II, for instance), both of which I've found immensely helpful. And truly pray for insight into the beauty of the sexual union and its purpose. I mean it. Once you see how perfectly God's plan unites two people and imbues them with a desire for such incredible intimacy and the power to bring forth new life, just...wow. :thumbsup: Why would anyone forfeit that?

Lastly, please don't try to anticipate the likelihood of your future wife having 'waited for you' - you need only be concerned with what you can bring to a relationship as serious as marriage, and how you can develop these traits now, as a single man - I would estimate that the self-control needed to remain chaste in this world is invaluable in marriage (or anywhere, really). But, let's follow your line of thinking: If you become sexually active now, then *meet the woman you want to marry in a few years, what kind of understanding of sex will you be communicating to her? What if your years of compromising your chastity pressure her to become inappropriately sexually active, too? If you enter your relationship with her, having had a string of previous sexual partners, how will she be burdened by your intentionally compromised morality? Can you say in all certainty that, at that point, you would not expect her to contracept during your premarital relationship so that you may continue to be sexually sated? Would you be able to discern marriage in that situation, or see any point to a sacramental marriage? **How would your actions be leading the beautiful girl you'd want to marry, to the Church?* Doesn't she deserve better than all that?

Please take the many intelligent, insightful comments that preceded mine to heart - so many posters have revealed their spiritual wounds to you, and speak from experience. Strive to understand God's plan for sex, and pray for the wisdom to appreciate and take it to heart, that you may never contemplate forfeiting yourself and those you love (and will come to love!) by cheapening such a gift. God bless you, Nick!

(p.s. As I said, I am a twentysomething Catholic girl and I do strive to live a chaste lifestyle; I have many beautiful, intelligent, successful young friends, both male and female, who remained - some, struggled to remain, but did - chaste until they were married. While it feels anomalous in contemporary culture, it's actually more prevalent than you might think; you are not alone! I hope you find and cultivate relationships where your desire for chastity is respected and your friends help to foster it, i.e. no trips to strip clubs ;).)


#26

Speaking from my own experience, I had a lot of the same thoughts & feelings as the OP but I thank God all the time that I waited. My wife didn’t and she tells me all the time how much she regrets it. I can’t say I regret what she did (we wouldn’t have our son otherwise), but I’d give anything for her to also be able to feel the same way I do, knowing that the only person I ever have, and ever will make love to is my spouse. Sex is great, but it doesn’t compare to the feeling you get knowing that you’ve given yourself so completely and exclusively to the one person in your life who means more to you than anyone else.


#27

I've been thinking about how to broach this topic with my children (still a few years to go before I have to, but good to be prepared). One thing I'd like to add to what has already been said here:

There is a huge difference between deciding to do something immoral, and forgiving someone for having done something immoral. Contrition and forgiveness are wonderful things, but it is vastly better to have never done the thing in the first place.

Also, I've heard great things about Pope JPII's Theology of the Body. I haven't looked at it yet, but if you want answers about why your chastity is of utmost importance, please look into this. It might give you the answers you're not getting here.


#28

[quote="Nick_89, post:1, topic:240027"]
I’m not even exaggerating when I say that she must have sent me 100 text messages everyday for two weeks. She asked me early-on if I had ever “gotten any”. I told her “No, I’m saving myself for marriage.” At first she seemed confused, but eventually she said that she respected my decision. Nevertheless, she started begging me to lose my virginity to her. She said she’s never been with a guy who wasn’t already very experienced and that she wants to know what it’s like. She’s even invited me to her apartment on several occasions when her boyfriend wasn’t home. Up until now, I’ve always said “no”. Now, however, I’m thinking about saying “yes”.

[/quote]

Nick: great posting. Thank you for your brutal honesty. I think most everyone has covered the Catholic reasons for staying chaste and, while I didn't read every single one, the general consensus is solid. Stay chaste for yourself and for whomever you stay with.

Now, if I may, I'd also like to make sure you recognize the warning flags from the interested party: she is dangerously obsessed with you. 100 text messages is an ominous sign. Her desirous obsession with you can only be matched with a potentially obsessive hatred should things go south. A few moments of fleeting pleasure wherein you use each other as sexual objects may be tempting, but there will be a high price to pay with a person with this type of personality. With all due respect to you, this person seems to have very little self-respect in treating her body and herself in such a way. I won't even go into her obvious disdain for her boyfriend in wanting to cheat on him this way.

I understand the temptations; those are hard. I'm going through my own struggles myself as a married man. Again, the religious reasons have been covered well. Being prudent about this, my advice is: run away from this woman. She sounds nuts.

One day at a time, brother, one day at a time.


#29

[quote="Nick_89, post:1, topic:240027"]
If I’m the only person who cares if I stay chaste or not, why should I?

[/quote]

You aren't the only person who cares. I care. Judging from the replies to this thread, obviously a lot of others care. God cares. And the fact you are even here asking shows that deep down inside, you care!

[quote="Nick_89, post:1, topic:240027"]
Can anybody give me one good reason, other than “because the Church/Bible says so”?

[/quote]

Chastity/virginity is beautiful, why do you think the Church upholds virginity and honors so many saints who were virgins? Your sexuality is a gift from God, to be given to Him if you choose religious life or the priesthood, to your future spouse should you choose marriage. In marriage, sex is sacred and holy; two become one flesh. There is a reason why this kind of intimacy is reserved for the married. Once you casually give your virginity away, you can never get it back. You will regret it if you do. Beelzebub is toying with you, messing around in your head and trying to get you to lose your virginity because being the sly old devil he is, he knows fully well the value of chastity. Tell him to get lost and stay out of your head. Command him on the name of Jesus to depart. On your wedding day, when you share the marriage bed with your future spouse, and consummate your love' you will be glad you waited, because while it will be messy and awkward, it will be incredible and wonderful too. Pray that God guides you to a suitable partner for marriage. There is a girl who is a virgin out there looking for a guy just like you. Don't sell yourself short by giving yourself away without the benefit of marriage.


#30

First off, I’d like to thank everybody who responded to my original post. I really appreciate your time and insights. I know this is a touchy subject for many people, so I especially appreciate those of you who were candid about your own experiences.

The girl I mentioned in my OP is having a party tomorrow at the new apartment she’s moving into (without her ex-boyfriend). I was thinking about going, even though there’s sure to be a lot of alcohol present. Her kids are going to be at her mom’s house, so that won’t be a problem.

After giving it some thought, I’ve decided to tell her I have to study for finals instead. To be perfectly honest, I probably wouldn’t have gone through with it, even if I went over there. I’ve always had too much of a conscience.

What I was trying to convey in my original post, but probably didn’t do so effectively, was how demoralizing it is to read these forums and see that just about everybody failed at remaining chaste until marriage. Then when somebody, like the guy in the other thread, comes on here and expresses their genuine feelings as someone who HAS done the right thing in the eyes of God and the Church and waited until marriage, he get’s torn to pieces. He was called a number of less than flattering names including: “immature” and “unchristian”. Someone even suggested he look into “Zoloft”, which I thought was uncalled for.

I understand that in the given situation the only thing he could do was “get over it”, however I think he already knew that. I also think that there was likely a sour grapes response by many who responded. However, the lack of compassion displayed in that thread left me thoroughly disillusioned.


#31

I'd like to think of myself as young (26), and therefore not much older than the OP. My husband and I were both virgins when we married, and we think it matters. We got to learn how to have sex together, to take our time, no pressure to perform...always very loving.

I also want the OP to know that there are other faithful Catholics staying chaste. Sure your future spouse can forgive you later on, but really, it's better to remain true to that person, even if you haven't met her yet.:thumbsup:


#32

[quote="Nick_89, post:1, topic:240027"]
If that’s the case, what’s the point? Can anybody give me one good reason, other than “because the Church/Bible says so”?

[/quote]

  1. God CARES if you do!

  2. You're future wife will as well

If there's one thing in my life I'd like to take back it would be my promiscuousness! Sex is a beautiful gift from God meant for marriage ALONE. Not some random "hook-up" despite what everyone else says...including "Catholics."

Remember the saying "If everyone jumped off a bridge, would you?"

Same concept. Save yourself brother and fight the good fight! You're in my prayers! :thumbsup:


#33

What a wonderful gift to give to your future wife. For her to know what you went though to remain chaste. That is really hot. I hear more women are remaining 'celibate for their future husbands, not great raving crowds of females, but a few intelligent women who feel that the man with whom they share their body must be worthy. It's beautiful, romantic, and holy. Casual sex is tacky, and unhealthy. I would love to tell a woman that she would be so much more desirable to men in general and especially to her special love, when they he finds she's intact. It's so avant garde. The woman who is obsessed over you is trouble. She is just lusting for you. She's no better than a guy who wants to be first for a woman, and then tells all the girls she bagged him. Stay a virgin. It is so incredibly cool.


#34

[quote="Nick_89, post:1, topic:240027"]
I thought about posting this in another thread. However, I didn’t want to hijack the whole thread so I thought I’d make my own.

 The thread was titled “How to love a nonvirgin”. It basically consisted of a guy asking how he could get over his girlfriend’s sexual history. He admitted it was his problem and that he was just being “insecure”. Every response he got basically boiled down to the same message: Get over it! Not a single person congratulated him on waiting for his future wife. It was as if it didn’t matter at all. 

 Then his girlfriend joined the thread and told everyone about how hard this had been on their relationship. She described it as a “dark cloud”.  Everyone seemed to sympathize with her and tell her she hadn’t done anything wrong. She (the gf) even seemed to wish that he’d lost it already, that way it wouldn’t be an issue. 

 Here’s where I fit into this. I’m 21 years-old, a college student, and up until now, a devout Catholic. I had no problem staying chaste in high school. The past few years, in college, I’ve tried to actively avoid situations where I would have a hard time staying chaste. I never had any doubt that I was doing the right thing. However, after reading the thread I mentioned above, I’m not so sure anymore. Quite frankly, if that’s what I have to look forward to, I see very little reason to remain chaste. 

  I have no idea if or when I’ll ever get married. One thing I know is that the chance of marrying a woman that waited for me is almost non-existent. I also know, based on the responses to the above-mentioned thread, that if I were to become sexually active, I would always be welcomed back to the Church. If that’s the case, why stay chaste in the first place? It doesn’t seem to matter to anybody anyway, including people who call themselves “Catholics”. 

  Several months ago, I met a girl at work who I’ve become good friends with. I’ve never wanted her to be anymore than a friend. She has two kids and just recently broke-up with her boyfriend. After we met and talked initially, she became nearly obsessed with me. I’m not even exaggerating when I say that she must have sent me 100 text messages everyday for two weeks. She asked me early-on if I had ever “gotten any”. I told her “No, I’m saving myself for marriage.” At first she seemed confused, but eventually she said that she respected my decision. Nevertheless, she started begging me to lose my virginity to her. She said she’s never been with a guy who wasn’t already very experienced and that she wants to know what it’s like. She’s even invited me to her apartment on several occasions when her boyfriend wasn’t home. Up until now, I’ve always said “no”. Now, however, I’m thinking about saying “yes”.  

  My question is simple: Why shouldn’t I say “yes”? If I’m the only person who cares if I stay chaste or not, why should I? The impression I get from this forum is that saving myself for marriage is more of a liability than anything else. If that’s the case, what’s the point? Can anybody give me one good reason, other than “because the Church/Bible says so”?

[/quote]

I was one of those who answered the other Poster.
Its great to remain a virgin. You can often see people here on CAF saying: both me and my gf/bf, husband/wife were/are virgins. This is great for them.. beyond great.
I know no serious Catholic who had premarital sex who doesn't regret it with all of his or her heart. I know men who were so sick with themselves after they lost their virginity before marriage that they couldn't function for a long time at work.
I know women, incl. myself who was cast into clinical depression when they had lost their virginity. I see the girl friend in the other thread in danger of developing a pattern of shame and depression where she might tolerate even abuse and degradation because she thinks she deserves it.

The other thread therefore, as far as I see, is not about whether its great to wait with sex, but whether its okay to put someone through shaming for an extensive period of time.
Love does not want the beloved to keep torturing herself over past mistakes.. .

I hope you stay pure because you believe in Jesus Christ, know and believe that impurity is a great evil because its not a sign of true love, and has the potential of hurting your future spouse, yourself and God. Not because you wanna look pious.

I know quite a few virgins, and I know some who are not, but who wished they were. For those who have gone to confession and have deeply grieved their loss of innocence, for a future boyfriend or girl friend to further rub their face in it, is simply not okay.

You can have sex the day where you are ready to take full responsibilty of a woman and your common child, and be a role model of Christ to both of them. That means, in marriage.

Your post shows you are not mature and you are not independent, if a few posts on the internet can make you wanna find a cheep excuse to betray the Lord.


#35

[quote="Gordon_Sims, post:26, topic:240027"]
Speaking from my own experience, I had a lot of the same thoughts & feelings as the OP but I thank God all the time that I waited. My wife didn't and she tells me all the time how much she regrets it. I can't say I regret what she did (we wouldn't have our son otherwise), but I'd give anything for her to also be able to feel the same way I do, knowing that the only person I ever have, and ever will make love to is my spouse. Sex is great, but it doesn't compare to the feeling you get knowing that you've given yourself so completely and exclusively to the one person in your life who means more to you than anyone else.

[/quote]

Gordon, arent you the one who had a porn-habit?
Sorry, but ... am I the only one who thinks that the thought of a man masturbating in front of 100s of naked women on the screen is worse than thinking of him in a loving relationship in youth that turns sexual?
Thats at least how I weigh it.. and thus I also think a man who has looked at porn cant say he is innocent or a virgin and only had his wife. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.


#36

[quote="Nick_89, post:30, topic:240027"]
First off, I'd like to thank everybody who responded to my original post. I really appreciate your time and insights. I know this is a touchy subject for many people, so I especially appreciate those of you who were candid about your own experiences.

The girl I mentioned in my OP is having a party tomorrow at the new apartment she's moving into (without her ex-boyfriend). I was thinking about going, even though there's sure to be a lot of alcohol present. Her kids are going to be at her mom's house, so that won't be a problem.

After giving it some thought, I've decided to tell her I have to study for finals instead. To be perfectly honest, I probably wouldn't have gone through with it, even if I went over there. I've always had too much of a conscience.

What I was trying to convey in my original post, but probably didn't do so effectively, was how demoralizing it is to read these forums and see that just about everybody failed at remaining chaste until marriage. Then when somebody, like the guy in the other thread, comes on here and expresses their genuine feelings as someone who HAS done the right thing in the eyes of God and the Church and waited until marriage, he get's torn to pieces. He was called a number of less than flattering names including: "immature" and "unchristian". Someone even suggested he look into "Zoloft", which I thought was uncalled for.

I understand that in the given situation the only thing he could do was "get over it", however I think he already knew that. I also think that there was likely a sour grapes response by many who responded. However, the lack of compassion displayed in that thread left me thoroughly disillusioned.

[/quote]

Nick,

I'm glad to hear that you plan to stay strong, and not even to place yourself in a situation where you might be tempted to go to bed with this woman. I think that you are making a very good choice there.

I don't think that I read the other thread you mentioned, so I don't know what was said and in what context. But let me just say that I have terrific respect and admiration for anyone, man or woman, who succeeds in being chaste until marriage, especially in this sex-saturated culture. Kudos to you and to others who are staying strong in the face of sometimes overwhelming pressure to do the wrong thing!

Paul


#37

[quote="Nick_89, post:1, topic:240027"]
My question is simple: Why shouldn’t I say “yes”? If I’m the only person who cares if I stay chaste or not, why should I? The impression I get from this forum is that saving myself for marriage is more of a liability than anything else. If that’s the case, what’s the point? Can anybody give me one good reason, other than “because the Church/Bible says so”?

[/quote]

I have a general rule I follow: Take the right course of action regardless of what anyone else thinks. If you do that, you may lose some friends along the way, but in the end you'll never have any regrets.


#38

Hi, Grace! I don’t want to sidetrack this topic but I did want to address your comments. You’re absolutely right about what I went through (it’s not something I’ve hidden or denied on here), and I regret it terribly. However, it is something I have put in my past and that I’ve also confessed to both to my priest and my wife. I agree that it’s a horrible habit/addiction, and even worse when you’re the one suffering from it. It’s terribly disrespectful and dehumanizing to yourself, your spouse and potentially everyone around you. However, I don’t think it compares to or takes the place of me being with my wife, and I don’t think there’s a real comparison between it and an actual relationship. To equate it with an actual relationship would be like me saying that I know what it’s like to be a boxer because I’ve seen Rocky.

The bottom line is that my wife knows how much I love her, and few things thrill her as much as when I talk to her about how wonderful if feels knowing that she’s the only woman I ever have and ever will make love to. It’s a truly marvelous feeling and a message I wish would be conveyed better to younger people. Have a blessed week!


#39

[quote="losh14, post:12, topic:240027"]
...It absolutely matters. Sex isn't just about pleasure. It's emotional, it's visceral. You are actually inside of another person. That's an extreme vulnerability, and it leaves people with lots of baggage if the relationship - the committment - isn't there. We've taught this for 2,000 years, and it was taught for 4,000 years before that. Sex is extraordinarily powerful and it can be devastating. Most of us might let the Church down, but I think most of us realize after the fact that the Church is right. I'd rather not have slept with 9 women. My wife being a virgin, my experience didn't add anything to our intimacy. If anything, it took away from it because anything we tried she wondered if I had done with someone else. Virginity allows you to give the entirety of yourself - including your history - to just one person.

And why would you beggar Christ's forgiveness by intentionally committing mortal sin? You have to cease sinning - or at least intend to - in order to receive forgiveness. You can't really approach the Church with a "try now and think about later" attitude.

[/quote]

Bravo! :thumbsup:


#40

OP, I finally went and read through the thread that troubles you...A lot of the people that responded were quite dismissive and even flip about the young man's concerns. I thought it was insulting to him and this is not normal for this forum. I was away for a couple of days and completely missed that thread, or I would have posted on it and asked people to stop telling him to "get over it," "you're insecure if you can't," etc.

Here's a fact. When a wife cheats on a husband, that marriage is almost certainly doomed. For men, it is VERY difficult to let go of the image of his wife having sex with another man. It's how God hard-wired you men. Women are hurt, but the IMAGES don't continue to trouble is as much. Yes, it's painful but over time, if the husband is truly repentant, we can succeed in letting go of it, especially if we don't know the details. Men, not so much.

IMO, the girlfriend really did her guy a disservice when she told him the details of who she had been with. She used him as a guilt reliever, which is easy to do when you feel guilty! Society says we need to be really honest and tell people EVERYTHING which of course can be really harmful. That is for your priest to know, no one else. She could have said, "I have had previous sexual contact, I am not a virgin, and I deeply regret it," and left it at that. Why would she tell him specifically that one of the men she had been with was a Marine??? That was HER mistake, and now he has to deal with it because he has information he didn't need to have.

Neither my husband nor I were virgins when we married. He knows that I was not, and I know that he was not. At the time I knew nothing else, I was not a practicing Catholic and would not have called myself a Catholic at all, and he was lapsed as well. We met over 30 years ago, and you know what the mentality of society was then - sex is just another bodily function, why not? So my history is not a pure one, not by a long shot. I have never ever told him about other men I have been with. And he has never asked. Even if he did ask, I would not tell him. What possible good could that do? None. It would destroy our lives.

One of my sons is still pure. The other made the mistake of thinking that my viewpoint (and God's!) was old-fashioned and wrong, and he paid the price. He bonded with his girlfriend in that way and he was absolutely DESTROYED when they broke up. Unlike me, he realized right away what he had lost, and he was very ashamed. It took me 20 years to recognize that I would never know the true purpose of sex in marriage, because I could never get back that sense of holy sexual intimacy that is supposed to come with the one person you marry and spend the rest of your life with. My husband is still not really a Catholic in any meaningful sense and has never expressed regret about his sexual past - in fact, I think he believes that I am some kind of nut because I have shame about mine. There are decisions in life that cannot be undone, but which cause pain and suffering forever. Having premarital sex is one of those things. You see, because my husband and I have our past sexual histories, we can never be pure with one another.

Anyway, not to go on and on, but I wanted to let you know that I think that thread went in the wrong direction because of the people who responded to it. Some of the posters did try to tell him that he had a right to be bothered, that it was a horrible thing to have to go through, without condemning his girlfriend (who came onto that thread, which was a little strange). I would tell him that he should let her go if he can't get over it. And that if he can't get over it, there is NOTHING wrong with him. She fed him too much information in the first place. This problem may re-emerge during their entire lives, at the most inopportune times. He may end up guarding his heart to a certain extent, or using it against her in some way. Not a great thing to do but perfectly NORMAL and it happens.


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