Real Presence found only in the Catholic Church-help me explain to my husband


#1

I got into a very rare discussion last night with my (unpracticing Baptist) husband about the Church. We were talking about the True Presence in the Eucharist and he said that he has always believed that the bread and wine are truly Jesus body and blood, and that is what his church that he grew up in believed. He thinks he’s been receiving the true body and blood of Christ at his Baptist church his whole life, and he can’t understand why I say that only a priest has the power to consecrate the bread and wine. I tried to tell him that the only place he can receive the Body and Blood of Christ is in a Catholic Church.

Any ideas? I’m rounding up info. to give to him tonight about other issues we were discussing but I’m at a loss on this one issue. Thanks!


#2

First of all, it is also found in the Orthodox Churches. If you can’t find a Catholic Church to go to, you can go to an Orthodox Church and receive communion. They still have a valid priesthood.

Secondly, I didn’t know that Baptist’s believed in the Real Presence. I thought they all thought it was symbolism.

I think the issue here is not which church has the real presense but which church has a valid priesthood, since only priests can consecrate the bread and wine.

Go the the main website:

www.catholic.com

Browse around or search on priesthood.


#3

[quote=qmvsimp]First of all, it is also found in the Orthodox Churches. If you can’t find a Catholic Church to go to, you can go to an Orthodox Church and receive communion. They still have a valid priesthood.

Secondly, I didn’t know that Baptist’s believed in the Real Presence. I thought they all thought it was symbolism.

I think the issue here is not which church has the real presense but which church has a valid priesthood, since only priests can consecrate the bread and wine.

Go the the main website:

www.catholic.com

Browse around or search on priesthood.
[/quote]

He seems to think that his baptist church believed it was the real body and blood of Christ. I really doubt that they do myself, but granted he hasn’t really gone to church since he was a teenager. I’m sure he wasn’t really paying attention to doctrine like that. But what he doesn’t understand is that it takes a priest to consecrate. He thinks any lay person or minister of any protestant church can do it just the same.

What I think is sad is that he accepts and believes in a literal interpretation of “This is my body, …blood” and he thinks he’s been getting it at his church growing up. And he doesn’t even realize or understand that he’s missing out on the best gift Jesus gave us. :frowning:

ugh, I have a loooooong way to go with him. :rolleyes:


#4

At least your husband isn’t hostile to the idea that he can receive the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus through bread and wine that has been consecrated. No Baptist that I personally know believes this is possible, so consider yourself fortunate on this regard. :slight_smile:


#5

[quote=Matt16_18]At least your husband isn’t hostile to the idea that he can receive the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus through bread and wine that has been consecrated. No Baptist that I personally know believes this is possible, so consider yourself fortunate in this regard. :slight_smile:
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#6

[quote=masondoggy]Any ideas?
[/quote]

Yeah. He’s a Catholic.


#7

[quote=masondoggy]I got into a very rare discussion last night with my (unpracticing Baptist) husband about the Church. We were talking about the True Presence in the Eucharist and he said that he has always believed that the bread and wine are truly Jesus body and blood, and that is what his church that he grew up in believed. He thinks he’s been receiving the true body and blood of Christ at his Baptist church his whole life, and he can’t understand why I say that only a priest has the power to consecrate the bread and wine. I tried to tell him that the only place he can receive the Body and Blood of Christ is in a Catholic Church.

Any ideas? I’m rounding up info. to give to him tonight about other issues we were discussing but I’m at a loss on this one issue. Thanks!
[/quote]

Hello, masondoggy! :wave:

The Southern Baptist Convention belives in the eucharist as a symbol. This was how I was brought up.

Lutherans believe in the Real Presence in a different way. They say, "The bread and wine aren’t substantially His Body and Blood. His Body and Blood are in, with, and under the bread and wine.

Anglicans also believe in the real presence. Only Baptists, Presbyterians, and Methodists believe in it as a symbol.

If he is not a Southern Baptist, he might believe something different.

Don’t go into too much detail, don’t argue to win, argue to explain, and don’t get frustrated (thats a toughie).


#8

You are going to need to explain Apostolic Succession and the role of the NT Priesthood, both the universal Priesthood of all believers and the Ministerial Ordained Priesthood.


#9

[quote=qmvsimp ---- see Poss #1 and #2]First of all, it is also found in the Orthodox Churches. If you can’t find a Catholic Church to go to, you can go to an Orthodox Church and receive communion. They still have a valid priesthood.

Secondly, I didn’t know that Baptist’s believed in the Real Presence. I thought they all thought it was symbolism.

I think the issue here is not which church has the real presense but which church has a valid priesthood, since only priests can consecrate the bread and wine.

Go the the main website:

www.catholic.com

Browse around or search on priesthood.
[/quote]

What Qvsim is saying is CONSISTENT WITH (1) MIRACLES OF THE HOLY EUCHARISTS AND (2) FATIMA

In the Eastern Orthodox subforum, I asked the Eastern Orthodox if they have ever had any Miracles of the Holy Eucharist in their church AFTER LANCIANO AND AFTER THEIR SCHISM WITH ROME.

I was expecting them to say no. Surprisingly, Fr._________, (I forgot his name) but he is the only one there with the name Fr. __________. He told me a story where the CONSECRATED WINE TURNED INTO BLOOD. In their case however, they have orders not to drink or eat it because they suspect that it is a trick of the devil, — ALL BECAUSE A ROMANIAN ORTHODOX HERMIT NUN TOLD AN ORTHODOX PRIEST WHO VISITED HER THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES NOT DESCEND ON THEIR ORTHODOX CONSECRATION BECAUSE THE ORTHODOX CHANGED THE CALENDAR.

I said to him, the Eastern Orthodox are right not to receive It into their body, NOT BECAUSE IT IS NOT THE BLOOD OR BODY OF CHRIST, BUT BECAUSE THEY DOUBT AND DO NOT BELIEVE THAT IT IS THE BODY OR BLOOD OF CHRIST. St, Paul warns that he who eats the Body or drinks the Blood WITHOUT RECOGNIZING THAT IT IS THE BODY AND BLOOD OF THE LORD BRINGS --------------- UPON HIMSELF (I forgot the words)

So as far as I know, IT IS ONLY IN THE CATHOLIC AND IN THE EASTERN ORTHODOX CHURCHES THAT THERE ARE MIRACLES OF THE HOLY EUCHARIST.

Consistent with this is the fact that THE FALL OF THE USSR DID NOT OCCUR WHEN ALL THE CATHOLIC BISHOPS IN UNION WITH THE ROMAN PONTIFF CONSECRATED RUSSIA TO THE IMMACULATE HEART ------- BUT ONLY OCCURED AFTER ALL OF THE BISHOPS OF THE EASTERN ORTHODOX CHURCH TOGETHER WITH ALL OF THE CATHOLIC BISHOPS AND THE ROMAN PONTIFF ALL TOGETHER CONSECRATED THE USSR TO THE IMMACULATE HEART. ( For more exactness as to which Orthodox bishops these were, CONTACT FR. ROBERT FOX of EWTN because it was from him that I heard this on EWTN.)

Google ---- Miracle Lanciano negri -----

Within the link, click on “Microphotographs of the Sciectific Recognition”

The Consecrated Bread TURNED INTO HUMAN HEART MUSCLE AND YOU CAN SEE ABOUT 20 MICROPHOTOS WITH BLOOD VESSELS, BLOOD, FLESH. SHOW THOSE BLOOD VESSELS TO YOUR HUSBAND. See if he will ever mistake It for bread!!!


#10

[quote=masondoggy]I got into a very rare discussion last night with my (unpracticing Baptist) husband about the Church. We were talking about the True Presence in the Eucharist and he said that he has always believed that the bread and wine are truly Jesus body and blood, and that is what his church that he grew up in believed. He thinks he’s been receiving the true body and blood of Christ at his Baptist church his whole life, and he can’t understand why I say that only a priest has the power to consecrate the bread and wine. I tried to tell him that the only place he can receive the Body and Blood of Christ is in a Catholic Church.

Any ideas? I’m rounding up info. to give to him tonight about other issues we were discussing but I’m at a loss on this one issue. Thanks!
[/quote]

Dear Friend: He, clearly does not know what he’s talking about. The Baptists clearly are most anti-Catholic. Perhaps he is saying this merely to appease you. I think so. My hubby says the same thing. He goes with me to Mass, takes Communion and then runs out, I don’t think even pondering for a minute the reality of it. BUT, that is between them and God. All we can do is merely be the sowers of the seed, and leave the harvest to God, the Almighty. Share with your hubby the truth, let him know what you know and have learned, and leave the rest to God. I have had to do this friend in a big way. I don’t even think my hubby is a believer period. He sleeps thru Church in any venue, swears, drinks, and basically does not seek the Lord in his life. One thing I have stopped doing is worry too much about him. I can only plant the seeds, as you can. Friend, I feel for you. Pray, live the best Catholic life you can, share the Truth and then let go. I have had to learn this big time.

God Bless!


#11

I was talking to my grandmother about the real presence and she as a Southern Baptist believes in the real presence but in a symbolic form that the baptist preach.

This is actually pretty funny, from the very beggining when Jesus himself taught us this is trully trully my flesh and this is trully trully my blood and whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood will inherit the kingdom of God.

2000 years later we are still debating this issue. Each denomination has its own view of the Eucharist or in protestant terms the Lords Supper.

Prior to my conversion I asked an Indepedent Baptist preacher why do we only have the Lords Supper a few times a year? He told me that we do not give it often because we do not want to turn it into a religous ritual.

As a Catholic convert it seems to me that the devil in his sneeky ways has snuck into our fellow Christians and convinced them or someone at some point of time that having Jesus in flesh and blood present durring a Mass or any Christian assembly somehow cannot be a good thing.

To me the Eucharist is the heart and soul of our Church, its the one reason why we should all be Catholic, there are many great churches out there and there are many great Christians that lead very good Christian lives but without the Eucharist to me all we would have is good works. And what good are good works without Christ? We as Catholic carry out good works because of the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, perhaps just a thought.


#12

Hi Mason____,

Baptists certainly don’t believe in the Real Presence. Only Lutherans and Anglicans do, but they do not have the Real Presence because they do not have real priests.

Catholics and Orthodox have true priesthood because they have unbroken succession of bishops from apostolic times. Bishops ordain priests, who can say Mass and confect the Eucharist.

Verbum


#13

Thanks for your input, guys!:slight_smile: Just to clarify, DH doesn’t really technically follow Baptist teachings. I guess you could call him a “cafeteria Baptist”, LOL! He just goes by his own opinion. The thing that sparked the discussion yesterday was that he said he doesn’t believe in organized religion…I laughed and said he sounds like the unitarians on a secular board that I visit often!

I don’t think he has a clue what the Baptist church teaches. (Or what the pastor of his church taught). I honestly don’t think he gave communion a second thought until years ago my mom explained to him the Catholic interpretation of Jn 6 and his reply was , “what would be the point if it was just symbolic”. I don’t think before that point that he ever considered whether it was real or symbolic, it was just something they did at his church around holidays.

Well, we’ll see. I’ve been praying for his conversion for 12 years now without giving up. It’s bound to happen…in the Lord’s own time. I’m just trying to be prepared when the questions come. The rest is up to God.


#14

Below is a mnegri link of the "EUCHARISTIC MIRACLE OF LANCIANO.

Shown in this link are MICROSCOPIC PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE CONSECRATED BREAD.

You can CLICK ON EACH PICTURE TO ENLARGE IT.

Way at the bottom, you can click to go to the (1) HOME PAGE or (2) TABLE OF CONTENTS

This miracle is some 900 years old, YET THE HUMAN FLESH HAS NOT DECAYED!!!

cmns.mnegri.it/en/abruzzo/miracolo_eucaristico/photorecognition.html


#15

[quote=masondoggy]Thanks for your input, guys!:slight_smile: Just to clarify, DH doesn’t really technically follow Baptist teachings. I guess you could call him a “cafeteria Baptist”, LOL! He just goes by his own opinion. The thing that sparked the discussion yesterday was that he said he doesn’t believe in organized religion…I laughed and said he sounds like the unitarians on a secular board that I visit often!

I don’t think he has a clue what the Baptist church teaches. (Or what the pastor of his church taught). I honestly don’t think he gave communion a second thought until years ago my mom explained to him the Catholic interpretation of Jn 6 and his reply was , “what would be the point if it was just symbolic”. I don’t think before that point that he ever considered whether it was real or symbolic, it was just something they did at his church around holidays.

Well, we’ll see. I’ve been praying for his conversion for 12 years now without giving up. It’s bound to happen…in the Lord’s own time. I’m just trying to be prepared when the questions come. The rest is up to God.
[/quote]

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who** believes ** has eternal life. 48 "I am the bread of life. …
60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this said, “This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, "Does this cause you to stumble? 62 "What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before? 63 **"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. **

Eating the flesh and blood of the Lord is an obvious metaphor for Believing in HIM. Many of the Church fathers said it was a metaphor for belief! John 3:16


#16

[quote=kaycee]Eating the flesh and blood of the Lord is an obvious metaphor for Believing in HIM. Many of the Church fathers said it was a metaphor for belief! John 3:16
[/quote]

Kaycee,
If you cannot assist the lady in her task to explain what she believes, I don’t think you should interject your personal and biased interpretation into the discussion. This is simply disrepectful and a violation of the conduct rules that you agreed to when you chose to join us here. (See below)

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You are wrong in your assertion that John 6 is metaphorical and I’ve heard this from a lot of n-Cs and it just never holds water at all. Everyone who heard the Bread of Life discourse took it literally and Jesus made no effort to explain it (See Mark 4:34) Jesus made it a make or break test even with the Twelve.

You err as well in your allegation that the early church taught something different because St. Paul sure as vitam aeternam believed it was the body and blood of the Lord in his first letter to the Corinthians (10:17-17, & 11:23-30).

You will probably attempt to use St. Augustine’s writings to support your assertion, but that is a lame misinterpretation since he never spoke infallibly in any way (brilliant as he was most of the time) and moreover he summed the whole of his beliefs up by saying that he would not believe anything if the Catholic Church did not tell him so.

Take the hint from Augustine.
Pax tecum,


#17

**Just explain to him about Apostolic succession and how it works. The apostles laid their hands on the ones they chose and gave them a share of their ministry. Also, tell him about my quote below, and even have him read some CA Tracts. Why don’t you bring him online and read the material? lol :smiley: Unless he doesn’t like computers.:whacky: **

:blessyou:


#18

For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed.
John 6:56


#19

[quote=kaycee—Post#14]John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who** believes **has eternal life. 48 "I am the bread of life. …
60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this said, “This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, "Does this cause you to stumble? 62 "What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before? 63 **"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. **

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

AHA!!! KAYCEE IS SHOWING US HOW PROTESTANTS READ JOHN ----- “The words of Eternal life”

This is EASY TO REMEMBER because this is John 6:66. Just remember SIX SIX SIX

As Kaycee shows us, PROTESTANTS STOP BEFORE THEY REACH 6:66.

CATHOLICS ON THE OTHER HAND READ 6:66 6:67 6:68

66 As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. (THE FIRST PROTESTANTS WHO REFUSED TO EAT THE BODY OF CHRIST!!!)

67 Jesus then said to the Twelve “Do you also want to leave?”

68 Simon Peter answered him, "Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. (THESE ARE THE CATHOLICS, THE ONES WHO FOLLOWED PETER)
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#20

[quote=masondoggy]I got into a very rare discussion last night with my (unpracticing Baptist) husband about the Church. We were talking about the True Presence in the Eucharist and he said that he has always believed that the bread and wine are truly Jesus body and blood, and that is what his church that he grew up in believed. He thinks he’s been receiving the true body and blood of Christ at his Baptist church his whole life, and he can’t understand why I say that only a priest has the power to consecrate the bread and wine. I tried to tell him that the only place he can receive the Body and Blood of Christ is in a Catholic Church.
[/quote]

Mason, it is suprising how many times I have heard a Protestant say this!! I was trying to explain the Eucharist to my mom (I’m a convert), how we believe that it is really the Body and Blood of Christ and she said, “We believe it is too.” Other Protestants have told me this too, and I’ve heard a lot of other people saying the same thing. Of course, Protestants may think they have the same understanding of the Eucharist as Catholics, but they don’t. I know of no branch of Protestantism that accepts the Real Presence, not even Anglicans or Lutherans (who halfway accept it).
Ask your huband if, since he believes the Eucharist, or as he would say, “the Lord’s supper”, is really the body of Christ, would he expose one of his baptist communion wafers in a monstrance and worship it, since it is the body of Christ and Christ is God?


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