RealCatholic.TV changes its name to ChurchMilitant.TV


#1

Some of you may be aware of the controversy in the diocese of Detroit over Michael Voris' use of the word "Catholic" on the popular web videos: "RealCatholic.TV".

See attached for apparent response:

realcatholictv.com/daily/?today=2012-06-12

Background on the controversy can be found here:

patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2011/12/michael-voris-not-authorized-to-use-the-word-catholic/


#2

Do you have any reason to believe the name change is related to the previous issue? Or that Voris is still in the Archdiocese of Detroit?


#3

[quote="Julia_Mae, post:2, topic:287823"]
Do you have any reason to believe the name change is related to the previous issue?

Only what I read.

"Editor’s note: The name change and move appears to be a positive response to the demands from the Archdiocese of Detroit that Real Catholic TV stop using the name “Catholic”."

douglawrence.wordpress.com/2012/06/12/real-catholic-tv-soon-to-become-churchmilitant-dot-tv/

Or that Voris is still in the Archdiocese of Detroit?

Just the "contact page" for ChurchMilitant.TV.

"ChurchMilitant.TV welcomes your comments and questions. Please bear in mind we receive a large number of messages every day, and we may not reply to all emails or letters, although we do read all of them.
To contact us by email : [EMAIL="contact@realcatholictv.com"]Contact@RealCatholicTV.com[/EMAIL]
To contact us by telephone : 248-545-5716
To contact us by mail :
2900 Hilton Road
Ferndale MI 48220"

realcatholictv.com/help/contact.php

[/quote]


#4

Only what I read.

"Editor’s note: The name change and move appears to be a positive response to the demands from the Archdiocese of Detroit that Real Catholic TV stop using the name “Catholic”."

douglawrence.wordpress.com/20...litant-dot-tv/

But this is just some blogger's opinion, not anything Voris said.

Or that Voris is still in the Archdiocese of Detroit?

Just the "contact page" for ChurchMilitant.TV.

"ChurchMilitant.TV welcomes your comments and questions. Please bear in mind we receive a large number of messages every day, and we may not reply to all emails or letters, although we do read all of them.
To contact us by email : [email]Contact@RealCatholicTV.com[/email]
To contact us by telephone : 248-545-5716
To contact us by mail :
2900 Hilton Road
Ferndale MI 48220"

realcatholictv.com/help/contact.php

Ah, thanks!


#5

[quote="Julia_Mae, post:4, topic:287823"]
But this is just some blogger's opinion, not anything Voris said.
!

[/quote]

Hence my use of the term "apparent" response


#6

[quote="SMOM, post:5, topic:287823"]
Hence my use of the term "apparent" response

[/quote]

I don't see what the Archdiocese of Detroit's beef is about. Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz of Lincoln Nebraska thinks the Vortex is great work and what I've seen of the Vortex and other St Michael presentations I have learned a great deal about our faith. I like their new name after all the Church on Earth is called the Church Militant because we are still fighting the battles and are not part of the Church Victorious or the Church Suffering as yet. (We are not as yet in heaven or in purgatory)


#7

Maybe the Archdiocese of Detroit could stop using the name “Catholic” if they are so liberal as to diss the work of the Vortex!:rolleyes:


#8

[quote="LegoGE1947, post:6, topic:287823"]
I don't see what the Archdiocese of Detroit's beef is about. Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz of Lincoln Nebraska thinks the Vortex is great work and what I've seen of the Vortex and other St Michael presentations I have learned a great deal about our faith. I like their new name after all the Church on Earth is called the Church Militant because we are still fighting the battles and are not part of the Church Victorious or the Church Suffering as yet. (We are not as yet in heaven or in purgatory)

[/quote]

If only there was a like button.:thumbsup:


#9

[quote="LegoGE1947, post:6, topic:287823"]
I don't see what the Archdiocese of Detroit's beef is about. Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz of Lincoln Nebraska thinks the Vortex is great work and what I've seen of the Vortex and other St Michael presentations I have learned a great deal about our faith. I like their new name after all the Church on Earth is called the Church Militant because we are still fighting the battles and are not part of the Church Victorious or the Church Suffering as yet. (We are not as yet in heaven or in purgatory)

[/quote]

The big deal is that the Bishop of Lincoln Nebraska in not in charge of the Church of Detroit. Each bishop has his own local Church and he can only make determinations for his own local Church.


#10

[quote="LegoGE1947, post:7, topic:287823"]
Maybe the Archdiocese of Detroit could stop using the name "Catholic" if they are so liberal as to diss the work of the Vortex!:rolleyes:

[/quote]

Catholicism is not about politics. It is the authority of the Holy Father through the bishops from which attachment to the Church is derived. On can not more do as you say than can a child usurp the role of the parent and the parent become the child.

I congratulate Mr. Voris on complying with Canon Law on the subject, though it still would be of benefit to be a Catholic apostolate.


#11

[quote="Cristiano, post:9, topic:287823"]
The big deal is that the Bishop of Lincoln Nebraska in not in charge of the Church of Detroit. Each bishop has his own local Church and he can only make determinations for his own local Church.

[/quote]

Being a relatively new convert I'm just learning how the Catholic Church works. I know that there are some Dioceses and parishes that seem more liberal or conservative theologically than others. An example is Mother Angelica didn't get on too well with the former Bishop of Los Angeles, Cardinal Mahoney, since her theology is more conservative than his. :shrug:


#12

[quote="LegoGE1947, post:6, topic:287823"]
I don't see what the Archdiocese of Detroit's beef is about. Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz of Lincoln Nebraska thinks the Vortex is great work and what I've seen of the Vortex and other St Michael presentations I have learned a great deal about our faith. I like their new name after all the Church on Earth is called the Church Militant because we are still fighting the battles and are not part of the Church Victorious or the Church Suffering as yet. (We are not as yet in heaven or in purgatory)

[/quote]

Having just gone through the process of obtaining canonical recognition of an apostolate in my own diocese, and getting permission to use the word "Catholic" in its title, I can tell you that most local Ordinaries are very careful about who gets to hold themselves out as "Catholic" and who doesn't. I think the "beef" is (and this is speculation on my part, but I think rational speculation) that there is a "process" in each diocese to obtain this canonical recognition and Mr. Vorhis either 1. didn't follow the process, or 2. followed the process and was denied permission by the local Ordinary. I suspect more likely is #1. However, under either scenario, his continued use of the word "Catholic" after being instructed by the local Ordinary that his entity did not have the necessary formal permission to do so would have been considered a fairly sever breach of protocol. If indeed scenario #1 was at work, he had two options: apply for the necessary canonical recognition, or stop using the word Catholic. Either would have been acceptable. It appears he took the second option.

I think it may be a mistake to assume that the diocese of Detroit has any problem with the work of Mr. Vorhis' apostolate. It may merely be that, as I said above, he failed to obtain the necessary permissions. We shouldn't assume he was denied permission. He may simply have not asked through the necessary formal process.


#13

[quote="SMOM, post:12, topic:287823"]
I think it may be a mistake to assume that the diocese of Detroit has any problem with the work of Mr. Vorhis' apostolate. It may merely be that, as I said above, he failed to obtain the necessary permissions. We shouldn't assume he was denied permission. He may simply have not asked through the necessary formal process.

[/quote]

Why not simply go ahead and ask for permission?


#14

Regarding Real Catholic TV and its Name
From Ned McGrath, Director of Communications | Issued December 15, 2011

The Church encourages the Christian faithful to promote or sustain a variety of apostolic undertakings but, nevertheless, prohibits any such undertaking from claiming the name Catholic without the consent of the competent ecclesiastical authority (see canon 216 of the 1983 Code of Canon Law). For some time, the Archdiocese of Detroit has been in communication with Mr. Michael Voris and his media partner at Real Catholic TV regarding their prominent use of the word “Catholic” in identifying and promoting their public activities disseminated from the enterprise’s production facility in Ferndale, Michigan. The Archdiocese has informed Mr. Voris and Real Catholic TV, RealCatholicTV.com, that it does not regard them as being authorized to use the word “Catholic” to identify or promote their public activities. Questions about this matter may be directed to the Archdiocese of Detroit, Department of Communications.

Canon Law Commentary
In the Light of the Law: blog entries from Dr. Edward Peters, a widely-known lay canon lawyer on the graduate faculty at Sacred Heart Major Seminary.

Canon law and the statement on Real Catholic TV
Questions and answers on Real Catholic TV statement


#15

[quote="ByzCathCantor, post:13, topic:287823"]
Why not simply go ahead and ask for permission?

[/quote]

I can't speak for the diocese of Detroit, but I know that in my diocese, it took over 1 year to go through the process. I don't know that RealCatholic TV was either willing or able to wait that long for the process to work itself through. That is one possible reason.


#16

[quote="LegoGE1947, post:11, topic:287823"]
Being a relatively new convert I'm just learning how the Catholic Church works. I know that there are some Dioceses and parishes that seem more liberal or conservative theologically than others. An example is Mother Angelica didn't get on too well with the former Bishop of Los Angeles, Cardinal Mahoney, since her theology is more conservative than his. :shrug:

[/quote]

I do not think that has to do with being theologically conservative. I think that the difference is not in theology but in the style of pastoral care of each bishop. People can debate for ever about pastoral care style and get in really heated arguments even if they are aligned theologically. Agreement on theology does not imply that we will view someone else behaviors or decisions as appropriate.


#17

[quote="SMOM, post:15, topic:287823"]
I can't speak for the diocese of Detroit, but I know that in my diocese, it took over 1 year to go through the process. I don't know that RealCatholic TV was either willing or able to wait that long for the process to work itself through. That is one possible reason.

[/quote]

Well it seems that their ministry, and the back-and-forth with the Archdiocese, have gone on longer than that. The appearance is that of a stand-off, which suggests an irreconcilable situation.


#18

[quote="LegoGE1947, post:6, topic:287823"]
I don't see what the Archdiocese of Detroit's beef is about. Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz of Lincoln Nebraska thinks the Vortex is great work and what I've seen of the Vortex and other St Michael presentations I have learned a great deal about our faith. I like their new name after all the Church on Earth is called the Church Militant because we are still fighting the battles and are not part of the Church Victorious or the Church Suffering as yet. (We are not as yet in heaven or in purgatory)

[/quote]

Note, Bishop Bruskewitz spoke favorably of RCTV at one time, and it was relatively early on in their existence before some of their more controversial airings.

The Archdiocese of Detroit was just restating Canon Law:

Canon 216 Since they participate in the mission of the Church, all the Christian faithful have the right to promote or sustain apostolic action even by their own undertakings, according to their own state and condition. Nevertheless, no undertaking is to claim the name Catholic without the consent of competent ecclesiastical authority.

Archbishop Vigneron is a solid bishop. It would be extremely erroneous to label him as "liberal" (not to mention uncharitable and a rash judgment).


#19

[quote="Joe_5859, post:18, topic:287823"]
Note, Bishop Bruskewitz spoke favorably of RCTV at one time, and it was relatively early on in their existence before some of their more controversial airings.

[/quote]

When was that? I ask because the history of this issue seems to go back to Saint Michael's Media, which was the first thing Voris tried to get the AoD to support as an apostolate, which was denied.


#20

[quote="Julia_Mae, post:19, topic:287823"]
When was that? I ask because the history of this issue seems to go back to Saint Michael's Media, which was the first thing Voris tried to get the AoD to support as an apostolate, which was denied.

[/quote]

Honestly, I can't find exactly what Bishop Bruskewitz said or when with regards to RCTV. I'm just going from memory because I remember hearing his words of endorsement before I heard any of the controversy (and it was several years back).

Perhaps his opinion of RCTV hasn't changed. I certainly have no way of knowing that. If I had a ringing endorsement from Bishop Bruskewitz, I would put it front and center on my home page.


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