Reality Check: Are you an obedient Catholic, or an unfaithful heterodox?

Seeing that this is a Catholic Answers Forum, I thought that all (most) Catholics here were faithful sons/daughters of the Church.

I want to see if that’s true, so please post your answer as to which category you fall into. You may choose to dialogue if you like, but that’s not what I’m really interested in.

I just want to see where people stand as it relates to the Teaching Magisterium of the Church.

We realistically and truthfully belong to only one of the two categories listed below:

Fully Obedient (Orthodox) Catholic

By “obedient”, I mean exactly that.

No if’s, and’s or but’s as it relates to Church Teachings.

With the fullest embrace of your love, you give no excuse for any of the Church’s Teachings or Traditions.

Period.

Disobedient / Unfaithful (Heterodox) “Catholic”

No middle ground here. None.

If you don’t belong to the first group, then you (unfortuneately) belong here.

(Please God, let them all be lovingly obedient Catholics!)

Go …

[quote=FiremanFrank] …
No middle ground here. None.

[/quote]

I would hate to live in your world :eek:

I do the very best that I can. Sometimes I fail due to my weak and sin-warped nature–but I want to be obedient and by God’s infinite mercy, be with Him in heaven one day. Ultimately, it is my intention to be completely orthodox–but being the sinner I am–I know I am not perfect.

steve andersen
I would hate to live in your world

And quite unfortuneately, and until I die …

I must live in yours.

Guess we’ll put you down for a “NO” then.:wink:

[quote=Steve Andersen]I would hate to live in your world :eek:
[/quote]

Me neither :slight_smile:

“No ifs” ? That is being far stricter than the Church. If - there’s that word again - there were no grey areas, no ambiguities in moral choices, and if everything was as clear-cut as some think, there would be no room for moral theology, and little need for advice in confession. ##

Dear, sweet st_felicity,

Being completely orthodox DOES NOT mean that one does not sin my little one. No, not at all.

WE ALL SIN, BUT …

But you see, there are those who sin while mocking or being disobedient to the Church’s Teachings. Nothing but self-righteous obstinance from those people.

And then there are those of us who sin, though with all the love in our hearts - we fully accept all of the Church’s Teachings and do our best to follow them. And if we fail, then we go to confession.

The unfaithful heterodox though, never end up going to confession on most things - as they do not accept what the Church says is right or wrong to begin with.

Big dfference there.

So from what you are saying here precious child, it seems that by your desires you clearly belong to the faithful Orthodox group of Catholics.

Good Choice!

Bless You st_felicity,

frank

Dear Greer,

Thank you for your input, I appreciate it.

But as far as morals go, there ARE NO grey areas.

Now you might “believe” that there are some, but in all reality my friend - there aren’t any.

What? Nobody have a copy of the $6 Catechism?

And BTW, I took a class on Moral Theology by a wonderful Priest who fully understood Church Teaching. And I can tell you this, Revealed Truth exists - and there aren’t any “grey” lines to speak of.

If this were not true, then this truly wouldn’t be the Catholic Church. We’d just be another Protestant church whose beliefs waivers in the wind. That isn’t what Jesus Christ left us with, and that IS NOT what we have.

Thank God!

So I guess that your a “NO” then also?

Too bad …

frank

I believe that the truth in morals and faith is found in the Catholic Church. As authority comes from God and as I believe she has the truth, I strive to be obedient in all things. This does not mean that I always succeed. When I fail I take it to the confessor and spiritual director and even good Catholic friends! When I disagree, I take it that the Church knows better than I do. There have been occasions where I discussed isues with priests and bishops in order to understand. Also, I believe it is awful to promote dissent and strive to promote Church unity.

As far as I have seen the CCC doesn’t have any grey areas in it. Whenever I look up an answer to a question I have, I always find a very clear answer. As for the question…I once was not a dedicated and faithful Catholic…but I found that it was my error. I now totally follow all doctrine as I am able and strive to correct any insufficiency in myself through prayer and the sacraments. One day I hope to acheive perfection…and I hope and pray that I will before I am called home to my Lord and Savior.

**Fully Obedient (Orthodox) Catholic

Sign me up brother!
**

Frank, my gentle dove, you weren’t by any chance a Pharisee in one of your past lives? :thumbsup:

I hate to have to say that I used to be a cafeteria Catholic, but no more! I fully accept all of the Chuch’s teachings. I do spend a lot of time on this site and these forums as I am learning more about my faith. Although I am a cradle Catholic and both my parents were very good Catholics, I think they figured I learned all I needed to in Sunday School. When I became an adult, I started realizing I really didn’t know that much about my faith. :frowning:

By “obedient”, I mean exactly that.

Surely you don’t mean without sin, do you? What would we need confession for in that case?

Aunt Martha

God knows, and He alone will judge me.

Frank, my gentle dove, you weren’t by any chance a Pharisee in one of your past lives?

:smiley:

With no middle ground here, I’m either a sinner or saint. Well, when I ask Mama Mary’s help, I always say Holy Mary Mother Of God, pray for us “sinners…” I’m a sinner, but I would like to be a saint when I die. :smiley:

PAX

[quote=FiremanFrank]Seeing that this is a Catholic Answers Forum, I thought that all (most) Catholics here were faithful sons/daughters of the Church.

I want to see if that’s true, so please post your answer as to which category you fall into. You may choose to dialogue if you like, but that’s not what I’m really interested in.

I just want to see where people stand as it relates to the Teaching Magisterium of the Church.

We realistically and truthfully belong to only one of the two categories listed below:

Fully Obedient (Orthodox) Catholic

By “obedient”, I mean exactly that.

No if’s, and’s or but’s as it relates to Church Teachings.

With the fullest embrace of your love, you give no excuse for any of the Church’s Teachings or Traditions.

Period.

Disobedient / Unfaithful (Heterodox) “Catholic”

No middle ground here. None.

If you don’t belong to the first group, then you (unfortuneately) belong here.

(Please God, let them all be lovingly obedient Catholics!)

Go …
[/quote]

There is an alternative type: The orthodox catholic in sin. It is possible and indeed frequent to realise and accept the sinfulness on an action but do it anyway ad Christ Himself predicted we would.

[quote=st_felicity]I do the very best that I can. Sometimes I fail due to my weak and sin-warped nature–but I want to be obedient and by God’s infinite mercy, be with Him in heaven one day. Ultimately, it is my intention to be completely orthodox–but being the sinner I am–I know I am not perfect.
[/quote]

Hi st_felicity. Sometimes I fail due to my weak and sin-warped nature, but I want to be obedient.
Can you explain how you fail and what you need to be obedient to.
Walk in love
edwinG

[quote=FiremanFrank]Seeing that this is a Catholic Answers Forum, I thought that all (most) Catholics here were faithful sons/daughters of the Church.

I want to see if that’s true, so please post your answer as to which category you fall into. You may choose to dialogue if you like, but that’s not what I’m really interested in.

I just want to see where people stand as it relates to the Teaching Magisterium of the Church.

We realistically and truthfully belong to only one of the two categories listed below:

Fully Obedient (Orthodox) Catholic

By “obedient”, I mean exactly that.

No if’s, and’s or but’s as it relates to Church Teachings.

With the fullest embrace of your love, you give no excuse for any of the Church’s Teachings or Traditions.

Period.

Disobedient / Unfaithful (Heterodox) “Catholic”

No middle ground here. None.

If you don’t belong to the first group, then you (unfortuneately) belong here.

(Please God, let them all be lovingly obedient Catholics!)

Go …
[/quote]

Hi FiremanFrank,
Interesting post.
Isnt our obedience suppostd to be to God through the Holy Spirit.
Christ did this, fully human. If one is to be obedient to the magisterium why did Christ send the Holy Spirit. And what about Christ himself, who taught Paul. Aren’t we supposed to be obeying Him. Does Christ say we are to have one master. See how the Holy Spirit gave directions to Paul. Can the magisterium do that. Does the magisterium know as much as the Holy Spirit?
Why does a person choose the magisterium above the Holy Spirit?
walk in love
edwinG

[quote=edwinG]Hi FiremanFrank,
Interesting post.
Isnt our obedience suppostd to be to God through the Holy Spirit.
Christ did this, fully human. If one is to be obedient to the magisterium why did Christ send the Holy Spirit. And what about Christ himself, who taught Paul. Aren’t we supposed to be obeying Him. Does Christ say we are to have one master. See how the Holy Spirit gave directions to Paul. Can the magisterium do that. Does the magisterium know as much as the Holy Spirit?
Why does a person choose the magisterium above the Holy Spirit?
walk in love
edwinG
[/quote]

edwin,
I have seen enough of your posts that you are aware that Catholics believe the Magesterium is guided and protected by the Holy Spirit. So when Catholics adhere and listen to the Magesterium, they are listening to the Holy Spirit just as those who heard Paul preach orally heard the words of truth come out of an earthen vessel. True, Paul was taught by Christ, but not only Christ. Paul himself states that he was a student of Gamaliel when talking to the Jews and he learned from Christians and the Apostles. And the Holy Spirit can give directions to the Magesterium just like you mentioned the Holy Spirit did with Paul. The Holy Spirit can work through the Oral Tradition as well as the Written Tradition (i.e. the Scriptures) and the Magesterium. The guidance of the Holy Spirit doesn’t need to be either/or but can be both/and. Unless you are saying that the Holy Spirit cannot work through the Magesterium as through Paul (and I do not believe you are trying to say that). Thanks and God Bless.

[quote=edwinG]Hi st_felicity. Sometimes I fail due to my weak and sin-warped nature, but I want to be obedient.
Can you explain how you fail and what you need to be obedient to.
Walk in love
edwinG
[/quote]

Well…my sin is personal…but what I mean is that in the past I have done things against Church teaching, such as I used birth control pills early in my marriage. I’m sure there was some diminished culpability due to my lack of full understanding of Church teaching…but I knew the Church said it was wrong and I used it anyway. And even today, on occasion, I have sinned by rationalizing skipping mass because I “didn’t feel well” when in fact I didn’t feel all that bad–maybe not 100% but no where near incapacitated. That’s sin and disobedient to Church teaching.

Ultimately I need to be obediant to GOD ALONE. But God gave us the Church to guide us–like a mother. And so, in being obedient to Church teaching, I am being obedient to God.

Peace to you Edwin.

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