Reasons for differences between the Quran & the Old Testament


#1

Peace & blessings to all :slight_smile:

I have always delighted in the idea of comparing the Quran with the Old Testament (actually Torah) so as to comment on the causes of obvious differences in the narration of certain stories. Your questions related to this general topic are welcome. Here’s my first question: Why does the Quran claim that Moses was adopted by the Pharaoh upon his wife’s request

The wife of Fir’aun said: “(Here is) a joy of the eye, for me and for thee: Slay him not. It may be that he will be of use to us, or we may adopt him as a son.” (AL-Qasas 9)

whereas the story of Moses’ childhood in Exodus plainly teaches that Moses was adopted by the Pharaoh’s daughter?

And Pharao’s daughter said to her: Take this child, and nurse him for me: I will give thee thy wages. The woman took and nursed the child: and when he was grown up, she delivered him to Pharao’s daughter. And she adopted him for a son, and called him Moses, saying: Because I took him out of the water. (Exodus 2: 9-10).


#2

one was inspired by God the other was inspired by man…there is the difference:)


#3

COuld have been a mistranslation, or any number of reasons.


#4

well there are many historical mistakes in Quran…

we can all guess the answer : The Bible is corrupt :smiley:


#5

Bible and Torah were fabricated! We should believe in Quran only!

And Angelos, have you brought up a subject whats really happened in the Quran about Noah’ sons?


#6

:wink: Of course, I know all the differences! Even the one about Noah’s wife as well as one of his sons! I’ll bring them up for further discussion later once I can answer my own question about Pharaoh’s wife (Quran) versus Pharaoh’s daughter (Bible).

Any further comments about the cause of differences? Why such a leap from the daughter to the wife? What difference would it have made if the Quran had agreed with the Biblical story? Think about this!


#7

it’s not that Muhammad deliberatly mixed roles…he did it by mistake…after all, no matter what a good borrower you are, you’ll always make errors. And pray tell, what is the Mishna Sanhedrin doing in Quran?:wink:


#8

lol. It seems that the OP has a lesson he wants to teach about Pharoah and baby Moses. Just post it already.


#9

Reasons for differences between the Quran & the Old Testament

  1. One is the experience of a people - the other is more like parts of a single book, such as one of the Prophets

  2. One is made known by human actions, some of them none too godly - the other is direct Divine address

  3. One took a thousand years to form - the other, a single generation

IMHO, the Koran is comparable with a single book - Jeremiah, say; not with an entire body of sacred books; all it shares with the complete body (Jewish or Christian) is its function and status as a final and complete Divine revelation.

Another comparison might be with the Pauline corpus of texts - the Koran has 114 Suras, the 14-letter Pauline *corpus *has 100 chapters. ##


#10

Interesting points.


#11

Peace and blessins to all :slight_smile:

Here’s my totally personal answer to the question “why does the Quran teach that it was Pharaoh’s wife who adopted Moses?”

In order the decipher the reason for the Islamic assertion that it was Pharaoh’s wife – not his daughter – who adopted baby Moses, the first thing we have to do is to display and analyze the uncanny similarities between the two chapters of the Quran: that of “Yusuf” (Joseph) and “Qasas” (Story).

Even though most chapters in the Quran lack a thematic and/or chronological unity and are made up of scrambled verses chained one after another at random (for instance, chapter 51), few chapters stand for the best examples, to some extent, of a flowing narrative . Actually, chapter 12 and 28 recount the stories of two significant Biblical figures, Joseph and Moses, with a similar introduction and have verses that stress the peculiar narrative style of these chapters:

Yusuf [1] Alif-Lam-Ra *; these are verses of the clear Book. [2] Indeed We have sent down an Arabic Qur’an, so that you may perceive. [3] We relate to you the **best narrative **because We have sent the divine revelation of this Qur’an, to you; although surely you were unaware before this.

Qasas [1] Ta-Seen-Meem. [2] These are verses of the clear Book. [3] We shall narrate to you the true tidings of Moses and Firaun (Pharaoh), for the people who have faith.

Apparently, both chapters are identical in that the first sentence of the narrative presented is placed in the fourth verse. However, this is not the only point that makes these chapters similar since the ending of the narratives as well as their beginning is marked by verses that are similar in form with a striking thematic unity:

Yusuf [102] These are some tidings of the Hidden which We divinely reveal to you; and you were not with them when they set their task and when they were scheming.

Qasas [44] And you were not on the western side of the Mount when We sent the command of being a prophet to Moses, and you were not present.


#12

continuing from above

Finally, there is one more striking similarity between Chapter 12 and 28 in terms of what happens to Joseph and Moses when their life is threatened and when they are consigned into the hands of Egyptians. According to the Quran, Joseph is sold to an Egyptian named “el-Aziz”, who shows mercy and compassion to Joseph and even thinks of adopting him:

Yusuf [21] And **the Egyptian **who purchased him said to his wife, “Keep him honorably – he may benefit us or we may adopt him as our son”; and this is how we established Yusuf in the land, and that We might teach him how to interpret events; and Allah is Dominant upon His works, but most men do not know.

Joseph and Moses’ stories are interestingly similar in that the main characters of both stories escape death and stay with Egyptians for a considerably long time, but they are also different in that Israel leaves Canaan through Joseph whilst Israel returns to Canaan through Moses. In the Quran this similarity is taken further to the notion of adoption. To compare Joseph’s story in chapter 12 with that of Moses in 28 on the basis of the concept of adoption:

Qasas [8] So **the family of Firaun **(Pharaoh) picked him up, in order that he become their enemy and a sorrow upon them; indeed Firaun and Haman and their armies were guilty. [9] And **Firaun’s wife **said, “This child is the comfort of my eyes and yours; do not kill him; perhaps he may benefit us, or we may adopt him as our son” - and they were unaware. [13] So We returned him to his mother in order to soothe her eyes and not grieve, and to know that Allah’s promise is true – but most people do not know.

Further, the sentence ensuing the narrative of adoption in Yusuf and Qasas are almost identical:

Yusuf [22] And when he matured to his full strength, We gave him wisdom and knowledge; and this is how We reward the virtuous.

Qasas [14] And when he reached his maturity and full strength, We gave him wisdom and knowledge; and this is how We reward the virtuous.

In the light of these verses, it is not difficult to guess that the story of Moses’ adoption in chapter 28 was derived from Joseph’s adoption in chapter 12, and the Biblical narrative ascribing Moses’ adoption to Pharaoh’s daughter was deliberately altered so that Moses’ story could be accommodated to Joseph’s and the number of striking parallels between these stories could be increased.

While highlighting the parallelism between Joseph and Moses’ story, the writers of the Quran do not forget to balance these uncanny similarities with a sharp contrast that’s hidden in the similar narratives. In Joseph’s story the compassionate and merciful person that wants to adopt Joseph is a male ruler (el-Aziz) whilst his wife is a sinful seductress. In Moses’ story, however, the male ruler (Pharaoh) is the one that wants to harm Moses whilst his wife is the compassionate and merciful person that wants to adopt Moses.

Peace to all those seeking the truth to embrace it :slight_smile:


#13

Very interesting analysis. It is not, I take it, the generally accepted reason in Islam though, is it?


#14

kidding right? :smiley:


#15

Shalom Valke, :wink:

I don’t really know how Muslim scholars would react to my analysis. What they taught me at school (when I was a Muslim student) was that we had to accept the Quran as the only true and reliable Word of Allah revealed to His messenger. In most Muslims’ opinion, it is not good to look for answers to the question why the Quran is different from the scripture of other faiths within the Quran since all the differences but support the distortion theory. :smiley:


#16

Salaam Angelos;

[quote=Angelos]Here’s my first question: Why does the Qur’an claim that Moses was adopted by the Pharaoh upon his wife’s request?

The wife of Fir’aun said: “(Here is) a joy of the eye, for me and for thee: Slay him not. It may be that he will be of use to us, or we may adopt him as a son.” (AL-Qasas 9)

whereas the story of Moses’ childhood in Exodus plainly teaches that Moses was adopted by the Pharaoh’s daughter?

And Pharaoh’s daughter said to her: Take this child, and nurse him for me: I will give thee thy wages. The woman took and nursed the child: and when he was grown up, she delivered him to Pharaoh’s daughter. And she adopted him for a son, and called him Moses, saying: Because I took him out of the water. (Exodus 2: 9-10).
[/quote]

Moses, the Hebrew child, was in the Holy Qur’an part of a Divine scheme.

Pharaoh, in his land “broke up its people into sections, depressing a group among them: their sons he slew, but he kept alive their females. [028.004].

One persecuted group was the Hebrew people. Allah (SWT) wished “to be Gracious to those who were being depressed in the land, to make them leaders (in Faith) and make them heirs” [028.005] and “To establish a firm place for them in the land” [028.006]. Moses has been chosen by Allah (SWT) to that end.

When Moses’ mother gave birth to him, Allah (SWT) inspired her “Suckle him, but when thou hast fears about him, cast him into the river, but fear not nor grieve: for We shall bring him back to thee, and We shall make him one of Our messengers." [028.007].
Allah (SWT) promised to return Moses to his mother. How? “And we ordained that he refused suck at first, until his sister came up and said: “Shall I point out to you the people of a house that will nourish and bring him up for you and be sincerely attached to him?”… [028.012]
“Thus did We restore him to his mother, that her eye might be comforted, that she might not grieve, and that she might know that the promise of Allah is true: but most of them do not understand.” [028.013]

Moses’ mother did as Allah (SWT) inspired her “Throw him into the chest, and throw the chest into the river: the river will cast him up on the bank, and he will be taken up by one who is an enemy to Me and an enemy to him” [020:039]

When the river cast him on the bank “Then the family of Pharaoh (Al Fir’aun in Arabic) picked him up” [028.008], The Qur’an does not say who from Pharaoh’s family picked up the child Moses, but it indicates a discussion which followed Moses’ recovery and which took place between, Pharaoh, his wife and probably other people from Pharaoh’s family. It was planned that Moses would live and grow in his enemy’s house and then become “…to them an adversary and a cause of sorrow…” [028.008]; the sorrow would come Pharaoh would know that he raised his bitterest enemy in his own house: "Did we not cherish thee as a child among us, and didst thou not stay in our midst many years of thy life?” [026.018] said Pharaoh when Moses came back to him after his journey to Midian, requesting him to release and let go the Children of Israel.

During the discussion which followed Moses’ recovery “The wife of Pharaoh said: “(Here is) joy of the eye, for me and for thee: slay him not. It may be that he will be use to us, or we may adopt him as a son.” And they perceived not (what they were doing)! [028.009], this is how Allah (SWT) saved Moses from being slain as was commanded by Pharaoh to be done for every new born Hebrew child.

When Pharaoh’s wife said “Slay him not”, she was not addressing her husband in particular, but rather an attendance (probably other members of Pharaoh’ family), because in Arabic she said “La Taktulu hu”, which is the plural tense of “Katala”. If she was talking to her husband alone (in the singular tense) she would have said “La Taktul hu”. Therefore when she said “may be that he will be use to us , or we may adopt him as a son”, she was not talking about herself and her husband, but about the family of Pharaoh.

To your question: Why does the Qur’an claim that Moses was adopted by the Pharaoh upon his wife’s request?

My answer is: the Holy Qur’an does no say that Pharaoh adopted Moses as a son, the wife of Pharaoh made two proposals about Moses and which saved his life, the two proposals were 1) May be he will be of use to us; not as child but when he will grow up 2) Or adopt him as a son. The evidence from the Holy Qur’an is that Pharaoh did NOT adopt Moses as a son "Did we not cherish thee as a **child **among us, and didst thou not stay in our midst many years of thy life? [026.018]. Was Moses adopted as a son, Pharaoh would have said “Did we not cherish thee as a **son **among us”.
Cont…


#17

Continued and end.

The Quranic narration about Moses’ childhood shows the plan Allah (SWT) had for him and his people.
The OT narrative: “Now after a long time the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel groaning, cried out because of the works: and their cry went up unto God from the works” [EX 2:23]
“And he heard their groaning, and remembered the covenant which he made with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob” [EX 2:24]
“And the Lord looked upon the children of Israel, and he knew them”. [EX 2:25]
The Creator, the All-Knowing remembered His covenant and looked upon people and knew them? This is pure human imagination.

The Holy Qur’an: “We rehearse to thee (O Mumammed) some of the story of Moses and Pharaoh in Truth, for people who believe.” [028.003]

Salaam.
Joseph.


#18

First, thank you for your post, which I consider the best example of irrelevance. You have to go and read my post again to see that my analysis is not based upon the question whether the Torah differs from the Quran in terms of the notion of adoption! My analysis is but a simple answer to the question why the writers of the Quran tamper with the Word of God and replace Pharaoh’s daughter with Pharaoh’s wife. They did so because one writer of a particular chapter copied from that of another and let the Biblical data be assimilated to his plagiarism.

Second, you post a message here to respond to me solely because you regard this thread as a perfect chance to propagate your Scripture and criticize the Old Testament that your beloved messenger did not avoid distorting to praise Islam, a man made religion.

Finally, you obviously forget that I had been a Muslim for so many years. So please do not tire yourself out by hiding most of the weak parts of your scripture. Be sure I am not a dupe since I have read the following verses in your beloved Quran.

Read and accept that Your Almighty Allah is no diffferent than a man that “finds” certain things! Your Omniscient Allah becomes aware of certain things after a long time? He discovers like men? The Quran is pure human imagination:

Zul-qarnain finds things in the world:

18: 86 Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: near it he found a people[89] Then followed he (another) way.

18: 90 Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun.

18: 93 Until, when he reached (a tract) between two mountains, he found, beneath them, a people who scarcely understood a word.

Now read how Mohammed’s Allah is manlike:

93: 3-8 Thy Guardian-Lord hath not forsaken thee, nor is He displeased. And verily the Hereafter will be better for thee than the present. And soon will thy Guardian-Lord give thee (that wherewith) thou shalt be well-pleased. Did He not find thee an orphan and give thee shelter (and care)? And He found thee wandering, and He gave thee guidance. ] And He found thee in need, and made thee independent. :smiley:

More, your beloved messenger seems to suffer from short memory since your Quran commands him to remember Allah:

29: 45 Recite what is sent of the Book by inspiration to thee, and establish regular Prayer: for Prayer restrains from shameful and unjust deeds; and remembrance of Allah is the greatest (thing in life) without doubt.

7: 205 And do thou bring thy Lord to remembrance in thy (very) soul, with humility and in reverence, without loudness in words, in the mornings and evenings; and be not thou of those who are unheedful.

Salaam


#19

I agree Allah [God] is the greatest.

I am on record as saying that all the Moslems I have ever known personally have all been men of goodwill. They have and I stand by that. But I would ask one question. I ask you to suspend your view just for a moment, to read what I have written and to think about the implications of what I have said. Just think about it that is all I ask.

Moslems recognise Jesus as a prophet, even a great prophet. That pleases us Christians. But, ask yourself, just supposen the Christian Christ REALY IS the Son of God.

Now there is no middle ground either we are 100% wrong or we are 100% right. Just think if we are right. What would the implications be for not only islam but the rest of the world?

Peace


#20

Salaam Angelos;

[quote=Angelos]First, thank you for your post, which I consider the best example of irrelevance.
[/quote]

Thank you master and Peace to you.

Salaam.
Joseph.


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