Rebuttals for Gender Theory


#86

Well if they do than they can just look at the data which show that Homosexual intercourse is more dangerous than heterosexual intercourse which actually has an objective (reproducing).


#88

There is more to helping a person than merely telling them the truth. We are advised to speak the truth in love. That means walking alongside the person and hearing their experience with sympathetic ears.


#89

Yes
Truth with love
Love with truth
not
Love without truth
Truth without love


#90

That is where the pastoral approach is useful. However, the pastoral approach cannot affirm the sin as many have tended to do.

The internet can be brutal, but in these types of discussions puts the truth one has to face right in their face. Not always pretty.


#91

Your need to read what you responding to. You do not deny that people use their their genitalia for pleasure which is reality we can both agree on. I addressed right and wrong by saying it is what you believe.

Again, you need to read what your are responding to. You do not give credit to the psychiatrists who voted for being congruent with their experiences.

BTW, to refresh my memory, I looked what happened in at the faithful APA

There was also an emerging generational changing of the guard within APA comprised of younger leaders urging the organization to greater social consciousness [2]. A very few psychoanalysts like Judd Marmor [5,52] were also taking issue with psychoanalytic orthodoxy regarding homosexuality.

While protests and panels took place, APA engaged in an internal deliberative process of considering the question of whether homosexuality should remain a psychiatric diagnosis. This included a symposium at the 1973 APA annual meeting in which participants favoring and opposing removal debated the question, “Should Homosexuality be in the APA Nomenclature?” [56]. The Nomenclature Committee, APA’s scientific body addressing this issue also wrestled with the question of what constitutes a mental disorder. , the Nomenclature Committee agreed that homosexuality per se was not one. Several other APA committees and deliberative bodies then reviewed and accepted their work and recommendations. As a result, in December 1973, APA’s Board of Trustees (BOT) voted to remove homosexuality from the DSM.

Psychiatrists from the psychoanalytic community, however, objected to the decision. They petitioned APA to hold a referendum asking the entire membership to vote either in support of or against the BOT decision. The decision to remove was upheld by a 58% majority of 10,000 voting members.

It should be noted that psychiatrists did not vote, as is often reported in the popular press, on whether homosexuality should remain a diagnosis. What APA members voted on was to either “favor” or “oppose” the APA Board of Trustees decision and, by extension, the scientific process they had set up to make the determination [1], (p. 148). Further, opponents of the 1973 removal have repeatedly tried to discredit the referendum’s outcome by declaring, “science cannot be decided by a vote” [58]. However they usually neglect to mention that those favoring retention of the diagnosis were the ones who petitioned for a vote in the first place. In any event, in 2006 the International Astronomical Union voted on whether Pluto was a planet [59,60], demonstrating that even in a hard science like astronomy, interpretation of facts are always filtered through human subjectivity.


#92

“Unbiased, Open Research [on Homosexuality] Was Never Done” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPgq1c4TYi4


#93

Would you support treatment to those seeking help?


#94

Your sources are lying to you. You need to read other sources that give a fuller and more accurate picture.

Nicholas Cummings was a supporter of NARTH which promoted reparative therapy. Do you really think that someone who promotes a discredited therapy is unbiased?

FYI, today all major mental health organizations/associations in the US say that reparative therapy is unethical and several states have banned reparative therapy for minors.


#95

You should really listen to him - you may surprised.

Interview With Dr. Nicholas Cummings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NyX5CxGraE


#96

Somehow the name of source (sources?) “National Center for Transgender Equality and the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force” does not inspire much confidence in its (their?) impartiality… And previously you seemed to imply that impartiality is important here.

Those are very different things.

Well, they do. By definition.

The only question is if those are the only mental disorders they have.

Of course they have rights. And the relevant right that is often denied to those poor people nowadays is the right to psychiatric help. Denial of which starts with supposedly “compassionate” refusal to acknowledge that they do need it.

Of course their very existence is not against God’s will. He did create them. Now, the existence of disorder is another matter. But then, it is not very different with any disorder of any kind.

Telling those poor people that they do need psychiatric help is one of the things that loving them should prompt us to do. After all, love is wanting good for another, and it would be good for them to receive psychiatric help.

On the other hand, saying that everything is fine might well be selfish, based on the cowardly wish to avoid conflict. Or sometimes even on greed (for example, when we get to the point when someone has to pay for surgery).

It is also like that for other mental disorders: giving another glass of vodka to an alcoholic is much easier than telling him that maybe he did have enough. But it is not the loving choice, even if one can try to lie to oneself that it is “compassionate”, “not hurting his feelings” etc.


#97

Please share your definition of mental disorder?


#98

Do you think that all same-sex attraction is a mental disorder, in the psychological sense of the term? Surely it is a moral disorder, insofar as it is a disposition to do morally wrong things. But the desire to lie, or the desire to cheat, or the desire to curse someone, is also a moral disorder. Do you have reason to believe that the attraction to the same sex is relevantly different from those things? Or do you think of those things as psychological disorders, too?


#99

Aren’t you curious about what his definition of mental disorder is? I have interacted with at least 8 people on here who are celebrate SSA, I would like to know why MPat is saying they have a mental disorder. If MPat is as misinformed as I believe he is we can help correct that.


#100

Somewhat informally - when something that is mental (thoughts, emotions etc.) is disordered, that is, wrong, consistently wrong, not how it should be given the (human) nature, even after taking into account the fact that it is fallen.

There is “pathological lying” or “mythomania”, there is “kleptomania” (pathological stealing), there is “coprolalia” (pathological cursing).

So, just because there is a sin and a temptation does not mean that there can’t be an associated mental disorder as well.

I’m afraid that by the time we need a special term for condition, we are no longer dealing with temptations “normal” for fallen human nature.

Probably you mean “celibate”, not “celebrate”. :slight_smile:

And I get an impression that you count someone as having a “mental disorder” when we get close to the point where that “someone” has to be locked into an asylum and stay there. On the other hand, I’m counting much milder forms and disorders taken under control (but not completely treated) as well.

So, let’s take a clearer example - alcoholism. It is clear that alcoholism is a mental disorder, and that it is not simply intemperance (which exists as well).

And alcoholism can be taken under control. I can easily think of an example (among people I know) where an alcoholic was able to take alcoholism under control for a long period of time, several times. Unfortunately, as “several times” hints, the disorder itself, while taken under control, is still there. And one has to be extra careful, lest it resurfaces again. For, unfortunately, it looks like we do not know how to treat most mental disorders completely.

And I do not see what is going be significantly different with celibate people suffering from self-sex attraction. The disorder is taken under control, it is not severe, but it is still there, it hasn’t been completely treated (otherwise you would call them “celibate former SSA”). They still have to be extra careful. It is still a cross.


#101

A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder.

For these individuals, the significant problem is finding affordable resources, such as counseling, hormone therapy, medical procedures and the social support necessary to freely express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. Many other obstacles may lead to distress, including a lack of acceptance within society, direct or indirect experiences with discrimination, or assault. These experiences may lead many transgender people to suffer with anxiety, depression or related disorders at higher rates than nontransgender persons.

According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), people who experience intense, persistent gender incongruence can be given the diagnosis of “gender dysphoria.” Some contend that the diagnosis inappropriately pathologizes gender noncongruence and should be eliminated. Others argue that it is essential to retain the diagnosis to ensure access to care.
The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) is under revision and there may be changes to its current classification of intense persistent gender incongruence as “gender identity disorder.”

http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx

I can’t understand this. Are they saying reassignment surgery is a good thing?


#102

We cannot forget the fact original sin has left us with concupiscence that EVERY human has to overcome. Desires, good and bad come into play. We have to overcome them.


#103

No way. The suicide rate foes way up after surgery. And now we are learning that many want to back to what they were, or go back to what they had before surgery.


#104

Wrong.

Williams: Before I contacted you for this interview, were you aware of the way your work was being misrepresented?

Dhejne: Yes! It’s very frustrating! I’ve even seen professors use my work to support ridiculous claims. I’ve often had to respond myself by commenting on articles, speaking with journalists, and talking about this problem at conferences. The Huffington Post wrote an article about the way my research is misrepresented. At the same time, I know of instances where ethical researchers and clinicians have used this study to expand and improve access to trans health care and impact systems of anti-trans oppression.

Of course trans medical and psychological care is efficacious. A 2010 meta-analysis confirmed by studies thereafter show that medical gender confirming interventions reduces gender dysphoria.


#105

Let’s start here : Suicide and Suicidal Behavior among Transgender Persons https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/


#106

That’s sad that the suicide rate is high. I accidentally liked your post about it. I can’t unlike it. I think their is another bug on here :triumph:


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