Josephus, a Jewish historian, describes James, an apostle, was stoned to death. From “Antiquities of the Jews” Pg423 Ch IX Concerning Albinus under whose procuratorship, James was slain; as alsowhat edifices were built by Agrippa
From my copy. I’ll look through to see if there are others
David Koresh was not there - did not walk with Jesus and was not an apostle - he did not SEE the risen Lord - he got caught up in his power over his followers
The apostles walked with Jesus heard his teachings saw his crucifixion and and witnessed Christ rise from the dead - big difference - the apostles are the witnesses which they have past on to us. No other faith is like Christianity - to claim the impossible - Jesus came back from the dead.
The books of the Prophets do not tell the coming of David Koresh who claimed to be Jesus second coming - he was a false messiah which the bible warns of - they were a dooms day cult - much like Jimmy Jones - both Baptist Ministers.
This is in no way meaningfully different from a Muslim cleric standing up and telling his congregation “if Mohammad is not a true Prophet of God, the last and greatest Prophet, messenger of the true faith of Islam, then my preaching and your belief are in vain, you are not following God rightly, and you may as well get out of the mosque, eat all the pork you want, drink all the alcohol you want, and get rid of your burkas”.
Apart from the obvious - which is that Paul’s claims are true, the clerics are not.
Here’s another example. (thinking in different terms)
I’ve heard people use as a rebuttal, if only Jesus was here in the flesh, He could convince ANYONE.
We know that’s not true. He could do that but He won’t force ANYONE to believe against their own free will.
Why did His own disciples leave Jesus saying who could listen to this and they left Him, not to follow Him anymore [Jn 6:66]
What did Jesus say?
He said He knew in advance those disciples didn’t believe from the beginning… But He gave them the teaching anyway knowing they were going to leave Him and not follow Him again… ( they couldn’t say in the end, they weren’t given a chance ) And one of the scariest passages in scripture IMV, Jesus didn’t go after them. He let them go. Meaning everything He taught them as a consequence if they didn’t follow what He prescribed, came down on them when they died.
Aquinas put it into the following words
“For one who has faith no explanation is necessary, to one without faith no explanation is sufficient.”
People will continue to argue ad nauseum. They won’t believe in Jesus, nor the apostles, nor Church Tradition, it’s just all made up nonsense. That’s why there is separation at the end of life between sheep and goats. The fight then is finally over forever.
Paraphrasing Paschal wager
At death, which all of us go through,
If the skeptic is right about this and I’m wrong about Jesus and Catholicism , then no big deal. No fault no foul. We’re dead. No consequences good or bad for anything we’ve done good or bad. We could be the worst person humanity has ever known or will know, or the best, we’re dead forever. Lights out.
If otoh, I’m right and the skeptic is wrong, the skeptic is screwed…forever. Since there is no clock in the after life, there is no notion of seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years, eons, it’s just the eternal now.
Since by virtue of our soul, given to us by God at our conception, we are immortal. We die in the body but our soul lives forever. Memory, intellect in tact forever in the transition to the next life. The question then is, … WHERE is forever going to be in the next life? Heaven or Hell.
Again, the skeptic will disagree with this wager as well. We’ll see who’s right and who’s wrong now won’t we?
Thus the wager, the bet, the gamble, the roll of the dice?
Gotta tell the skeptic though, once dead they can’t pull back their wager if they find out they made a mistake.
If I made a mistake otoh, and there is no next life, Who cares? It doesn’t matter. We’re dead forever.
Not so, however if the skeptic is wrong. Hence the wager