France IS the fringe of the old Empire. Pockets are irrelevant; there are a few cranks anywhere.
France is an excellent example.
France is the fringe. Gaul, recall?
Switzerland is another great example.
When did Rome conquer Switzerland?
Then there is Olde England itself, a part of the Roman empire for probably four hundred years and the original political base of Saint Constantine, emperor of Rome.
You do understand what fringe means, right? It’s not only a function of when conquered but where located and how influential.
It is total nonsense. Ideas travel along the trade routes, there is no geographic limitation to ideas, only cultural limits. The perfect example is Romania. Transylvania, reaching into the very heart of Romania, was held by the kingdom of Hungary, most of the people were Orthodox Romanians and a percentage were Magyars who had setted there hundreds of years before and converted into the Roman Catholic faith following king Stephen. It was the Roman Catholic community, in the heart of Romania in the heart of eastern Europe that became Protestant.
Christianity was a Jewish cult until Constantine. She spread because of the Empire. It is an odd thing to hear Orthodox misapprehend the importance of the Empire. Those trade routes were possible simply because they were protected by legions.
The Orthodox remained Orthodox in spite of the the fact that they had direct contact with the Roman Catholics (turning Protestant) every day. The Protestant arguments did not make sense to the Orthodox, while the Roman Catholics flocked to the Protestant cause.
Prove your thesis. Let’s see the evidence for Protestant penetration of Orthodox areas during the Reformation and Orthodox response.
Russia, for it’s part, invited Protestants in, to live, work and trade. Even requiring Protestant craftsmen to take on Russian apprentices. All of this initmate contact for several centuries did not make a difference.
How free were Russians to convert in the 16th century?
Protestant ideas did not take root in the East because the Orthodox have a different mindset than western Christians. They do not work from the same basic presumptions and they ask different questions, seeking different answers.
This is a straw argument, I do not see it asserted by anyone here.
Protestant ideas are taking root in the East right now; it’s a major target for evangelicals. The mindset must not be THAT alien, right?
The Protestant reformers most certainly did reach out to the Orthodox east. In producing their “reforms” they thought that they were cleaning up and restoring western Christianity to it’s Apostolic origins, and thought that they had sympathetic allies in the Orthodox. They were rebuffed completely.
Okay, so let’s see the evidence. Martin Luther thought the Jews would become Lutherans, is this a similar type of reaching out? The Protestants triggered revolts and marched against the West. The influence was quite huge. It is quite analogous to Muslims and Turks conquering the East, where Orthodoxy held sway. And a good many Orthodox converted to Islam, did they not?
Yet Holy Orthodoxy had no experience of the scholasticism that the western church had. Orthodoxy is still deeply into it’s Patristic roots. In those cases where Protestants have forwarded arguments to the East in their disputes with Roman Catholicism the Orthodox have essentially endorsed the Roman Catholic positions as being more correct. This has to be because of our common origins in the early church.
No argument from me, but don’t push Western scholasticism too far. After all, had priests in Germany been better catechized their never would have been a Reformation.
Orthodox do not make common cause with Protestants, at any level, and are more likely to identify the Roman Catholic church as the first Protestant church, because of the many commonalities between the RC way of thinking and the Protestant ways. It may seem to be an unfair comparison, but it helps us to understand that the ways the western church grew and changed over time nurtured the Protestant spirit, and provided the idea bank for Protestant assertions.
Funny, I was about to say the same thing about the Orthodox—the common trait you share with Protestants is a problem with authority.
But if you don’t blame us for Protestantism, we won’t blame you for the tragedy that is the Islamic East. As Islam is to the Eastern Roman Empire, Protestantism was to the West.
Empires decay on the frontiers.