Reformed Church?


#1

Many Protestant Churches claim that they are the new reformed church. As a new Catholic I now understand that the Catholic Church goes all the way back to Saint Peter and the Apostles. Jesus Christ himself left the authority of his Church to the apostles and Peter as the leader of the Church on earth.

If one supports that the church needed or needs to be reformed that is fine, but to claim that outside of the Church seems foolish to me, bc to me you are making the point that Jesus failed, or the Holy Spirit failed.

The Catholic Church is the only church that goes back to Jesus Christ, and although have made mistakes and will continue to make mistakes, we are the only Church that has always gone back to try to make good at what was once bad and continue to move forward in seeking God and all of his truth, by testing science, philosophy,… and so on.

Yet all other Churches has just followed one particular man at some point at time, that was different enough to be a morman instead of a baptist or any other protestant claim to the truth.


#2

I completely agree with you! :thumbsup: Congratulations on becoming a new Catholic.

May God bless you,
Maggie


#3

Well said Reid! :thumbsup:


#4

Lest you confuse non-Catholics, by “mistakes” I believe you mean the Church will have sinners in her, but she cannot make mistakes in officially defining teaching of morals or faith for her faithful.

(we now continue with our regular programming):wink:


#5

Correct, I did not mean the Church has made mistakes from a Doctrine point of view, but the Church is full of sinners, laymen and priesthood alike. But we are the only Church that has continued to progress forward in different times as we all seek the truth of God.

As a new Catholic I am told a lot of funny things like I can not believe you can be apart of a Church that has Priesthood that … and u know the rest.

But as Christians rather Catholic or Protestant are we not told by Jesus himself that the greatest commandment is to love, even your enemy?

And if we look at the Lords Prayer don’t we pray " Forgive us of our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us"

meaning forgive us of our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us.

I meditate on that a lot, forgive us as we forgive.


#6

Reid,
I don’t follow your logic on the reformation. If the Catholic Church had become apostate as reformers believed, having lost its priesthood authority, how could a “reformation” bring back that lost divine authority? If God’s priesthood was lost on the earth it seems God would need to “restore” it once again. And if the Catholic Church never lost its authority what business did the reformers have in breaking away??

To me, either the Great Apostasy did indeed occur in which case a restoration was necessary (not a reformation) OR it did not occur in which case the Catholic Church retains its authority and is still God’s church today. Either way, the Protestants have no authority.

From A Marvelous Work and a Wonder by LeGrand Richards:

Many years ago a learned man, a member of the Roman Catholic Church, came to Utah and spoke from the stand of the Salt Lake Tabernacle. I became well-acquainted with him, and we conversed freely and frankly. A great scholar, with perhaps a dozen languages at his tongue’s end, he seemed to know all about theology, law, literature, science and philosophy. One day he said to me: "You Mormons are all ignoramuses. You don’t even know the strength of your own position. It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. The issue is between Catholicism and Mormonism. If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong; and that’s all there is to it. The Protestants haven’t a leg to stand on. For, if we are wrong, they are wrong with us, since they were a part of us and went out from us; while if we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago. If we have the apostolic succession from St. Peter, as we claim, there is no need of Joseph Smith and Mormonism; but if we have not that succession, then such a man as Joseph Smith was necessary, and Mormonism’s attitude is the only consistent one. It is either the perpetuation of the gospel from ancient times, or the restoration of the gospel in latter days.


#7

[quote=Reid]Many Protestant Churches claim that they are the new reformed church. As a new Catholic I now understand that the Catholic Church goes all the way back to Saint Peter and the Apostles. Jesus Christ himself left the authority of his Church to the apostles and Peter as the leader of the Church on earth.

If one supports that the church needed or needs to be reformed that is fine, but to claim that outside of the Church seems foolish to me, bc to me you are making the point that Jesus failed, or the Holy Spirit failed.

The Catholic Church is the only church that goes back to Jesus Christ, and although have made mistakes and will continue to make mistakes, we are the only Church that has always gone back to try to make good at what was once bad and continue to move forward in seeking God and all of his truth, by testing science, philosophy,… and so on.

Yet all other Churches has just followed one particular man at some point at time, that was different enough to be a morman instead of a baptist or any other protestant claim to the truth.
[/quote]

The LDS believe that their church is restored, not reformed. Meaning that the Catholic church(and consequently all churches) had lost their authority. So reforming them would do no good. Jesus Christ’s true church, and the priesthood was completely gone from the Earth. Only a complete restoration(a bringing back) would do the trick. They believe that God restored his church and his priesthood through Joseph Smith.


#8

I stand corrected on the reformation vs restoration.

But Jesus Christ promised that he will never leave the Church, that the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

My question to you is what specifically happened from your point of view that broke off the priesthood of the Catholic Church?

Also Cason I have much respect for you as you have come in here and presented yourself well, and even though we might have different opinions I hope we can continue this open dialog.

I have a new out look on other religions, I just read Truth and Tolerance wriiten by our current Pope Benedict I highly reccomend it for everyone if you have any interest in philosophy of world religions and the place for Christianity.


#9

[quote=Reid]I stand corrected on the reformation vs restoration.

But Jesus Christ promised that he will never leave the Church, that the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

My question to you is what specifically happened from your point of view that broke off the priesthood of the Catholic Church?

Also Cason I have much respect for you as you have come in here and presented yourself well, and even though we might have different opinions I hope we can continue this open dialog.

I have a new out look on other religions, I just read Truth and Tolerance wriiten by our current Pope Benedict I highly reccomend it for everyone if you have any interest in philosophy of world religions and the place for Christianity.
[/quote]

There are no specific events that any Mormon can use to explain when the great apostacy happened. Among them there are several theories and points of view. Some believed it occurred upon the death of the last Apostle, others say it was a gradual apostacy over the first couple centuries, but none can definitively point to when or how the priesthood authority of the church was supposedly taken away by God. Ultimately it comes down to believing in the great apostacy because Joseph Smith said so.

Both Catholics and Mormons believe that Christ established a visible church under the leadership of the 12 Apostles. Keep in mind that the very existence of the LDS church depends on the great apostacy. Without the great apostacy, there is no Mormon church, so it’s really up to them to show us that the great apostacy did in fact happen.


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