Refutation of JW's 144,000 annointed


#1

What is your line of reasoning to refute JW’s 144,000 annointed ones?


#2

The protection of the 144,000 is clearly spiritual. For it is more important that you be protected from spiritual harm and die than to “gain the whole world and lose your soul in the process.” How are they being protected? The Seal is in the “forehead”. The forehead covers the mind, the mind is fused with the soul’s intellect. Hence, those protected are to be “unstained” in the intellect, that is protected from doctrinal error.

Only Catholicism can give this full protection. Hence, the 144,000 symbolize the faithful Catholics of all ages, who, because of the infallibility of the Church’s teaching, can never be harmed in their intellect by falsehood.

Then, by way of implication, the trumpets could symbolize great spiritual attacks on the Church’s doctrinal development, like Islam, Orthodox, Protestantism, the Enlightenment, etc.


#3

Jak se mas, zemi? Byl jsem v Bratislavo v rok 2002, protoze jsem musil visa pro Ceske Republice. Mluvim trochu cesky. Take, jsem byl v Tatry. Moc krasne!


#4

LOL, because the prophecy from the Jewish Messiah says they are from the 12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL.


#5

Tak skusim mluvit po cesky. Jsem, Slovak vis :slight_smile: Ale nedela mi to zadny problem. Priste kdyz prides do Bratislavy, dej vedet :wink:

Did you understand? :slight_smile:

Thanks for your reply.


#6

Ehm… could you spell it out more, please? I’m sometimes slow, you know :shrug:

Or was it a joke? :rolleyes:


#7

The 144,000 are Jewish VIRGINS.

How many of the 144,000 of JWs are both Jewish and Virgins?

refutation over.


#8

I sort of understand. So you are trying to speak some czech. You are slovak I see but it is not a problem? When I come to Bratislava, we will see? That’s the best I can do.

:slight_smile:


#9

Do they have any way to refute this? :confused:


#10

Very good :thumbsup:

Except for "When you come to Bratislava, let me know (in Czech “vedet” = to know, “videt” = to see)

I’m impressed by you! :wink:


#11

Ditto that!!! :thumbsup:


#12

JW’s have a refutation for nearly everything :). There is a members only book called “Reasoning From the Scriptures” which contains the Watchtower’s answer for most every objection JW’s run into in the field and I think it has this one covered. The refutation is weak, but if the Watchtower has spoken, most JW’s will accept that explanation.

You can find some good articles on this site: catholicxjw.com/ The founder has been a guest on Catholic Answers live a few times.

Hope it helps!
-Stylite


#13

Thank you, :slight_smile:

I know that site. I was just wondering… is “Reasoning From the Scriptures” somewhere to be found on the web? :confused:


#14

What I remember from attending their meetings is that they tell you that some parts of the bible are to be taken symbolically and some literally. When I go home I’ll check that book Stylite mentioned and see what they say about this. I have read it before but I cannot remember what it says.

You know? One thing you could do is ask you friend if her JW acquaintances can give her a copy of the JW library. The one I have is in Spanish, so I don’t think it’d help you. This cd-rom has everything they have published and it’s updated every yr. I have the 2005 and 2006 version. The 2006 being the most current one so far. That said, if she can get a copy ask her to make a copy for you and send it to you. You can have access to all their literature that way and to all the controversial topics they have published - but remember one thing, that the things they published before that cause turmoil (such as the end of the world prophecies) are not on there or have been edited so that the JWs don’t leave their WT because they can be proven wrong.


#15

Ok. that’d be great to look at the book.

When does one get that book? And other materials? After baptism?

If it is to be found on a CD it should also be somewhere on the net, no?


#16

If you go to a local Kingdom Hall you can ask for these books, but the Reasoning from the Scriptures book and the Organized book are only for those who preach or those who are or will be baptised. I got them because they thought I would baptize and because I asked for it when I “signed up” for their theocratic school. You could just go to a meeting, pretend you’re a JW visitor and ask for all the books. Sometimes they will give them to you if you just ask, but you have to be at KH to ask for them.


#17

You can tell them you come from a US congregation in so and so town and they’d believe you. You could say you want to have the books while you’re visiting because you left them at home. They’ll never know.


#18

Hm, thank you.

I alwayes at least take some issues from the JWs when I meet them.

I’ll try to ask for the books the next time telling them I’m studying the Scriptures and the WT and I would be really interested in their books (it is all true)


#19

The Watchtower CD’s can be found on the net, but its copyrighted stuff so I can’t post any links. I got mine as a hardcopy from a JW who was tired of printing things out for me :). It took a while to get to that point though. The CD contains the Watchtower magazines from the 1950’s to present, some of their books, and their members only newsletter called “Our Kingdom Ministry.” You might have some luck finding someone with better information at a place like jehovahs-witness.com/ which is a mostly ex-JW message board.

You can get the Reasoning book from used booksellers like Abebooks. Its handy since it tells you exactly what answer to expect for any questions you bring up


#20

Thanks for the info.

Hmm… so the book "Reasoning… " isn’t on the cd?


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