Refutations against Orthodoxy


#1

Hi, I am looking for refutations that say that the Catholic Church is the True Church and the Orthodox churches are not. In particular, I am looking for Biblical refutations. I know many will refer me to the verse about Peter and the rock, which indeed, is quite sensible. But I would like more, especially Old Testament sources. Also, I am not really looking for a discussion about complex theological concepts, such as “fililoque.”

Please give me links, titles of books, names of scholars, explanations–whatever you have. I am very seriously considering converting, but I still have some doubts.


#2

Why do you need to refute the Orthodox?


#3

[quote="nightrider009, post:1, topic:302924"]
Hi, I am looking for refutations that say that the Catholic Church is the True Church and the Orthodox churches are not. In particular, I am looking for Biblical refutations. I know many will refer me to the verse about Peter and the rock, which indeed, is quite sensible. But I would like more, especially Old Testament sources. Also, I am not really looking for a discussion about complex theological concepts, such as "fililoque."

Please give me links, titles of books, names of scholars, explanations--whatever you have. I am very seriously considering converting, but I still have some doubts.

[/quote]

I think you would likely find better answers on this subject in the Apologetics forum rather than this one.


#4

[quote="nightrider009, post:1, topic:302924"]
I am very seriously considering converting, but I still have some doubts.

[/quote]

Converting from Orthodoxy to Roman Catholicism? I think the fact you don't want a complex discussion means you won't get any answer that makes sense. If you go to an Orthodox forum, they will have just as compelling arguments for their cause.

It's going to be your job to delve into the theology of the two Churches and pray for guidance.


#5

[quote="Julia_Mae, post:4, topic:302924"]
Converting from Orthodoxy to Roman Catholicism? I think the fact you don't want a complex discussion means you won't get any answer that makes sense. If you go to an Orthodox forum, they will have just as compelling arguments for their cause.

It's going to be your job to delve into the theology of the two Churches and pray for guidance.

[/quote]

There can't exist any two opposing arguments. Either one is either true and a valid argument or it isn't. Don't let relativism get to you! But yes, the apologetics forum is the place to go to.


#6

[quote="nightrider009, post:1, topic:302924"]
Hi, I am looking for refutations that say that the Catholic Church is the True Church and the Orthodox churches are not. In particular, I am looking for Biblical refutations. I know many will refer me to the verse about Peter and the rock, which indeed, is quite sensible. But I would like more, especially Old Testament sources. Also, I am not really looking for a discussion about complex theological concepts, such as "fililoque."

Please give me links, titles of books, names of scholars, explanations--whatever you have. I am very seriously considering converting, but I still have some doubts.

[/quote]

I think you need to distinguish between Orthodox misunderstandings of Catholicism, on the one hand, and Orthodoxy per se, on the other.

Refute the former all you like, for there is much material to refute. But I don't know if refuting Orthodoxy per se is a very worthwhile or even noble effort.

Blessings,
Marduk


#7

We cannot say that one is the "true" church, for the Church is the community of all baptized Christians.

The Orthodox Church is *almost *in full communion with the Catholic Church. Learn more about the "East-West schism" or "Great Schism" of 1054. In short, it was a sad fight between brothers that ended with a mutual excommunication, revoked only by both sides on 1965.

According to the Catechism:

with the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist.

What you must take into consideration, however, is this fundamental teaching:

Christ “established here on earth” only one Church and instituted it as a “visible and spiritual community” ...] This Church, constituted and organised in this world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the successor of Peter and the Bishops in communion with him”

You can learn more here and elsewhere.

Overall, though, I think that the major point is that it was Christ's direct prayer to the Father that we would become "one flock with one shepherd", and this became clear with the primacy of Peter between the Apostles, acknowledged even by St. Paul. It will only be a matter of time before there is full reconciliation between the Catholic and the Orthodox Church under one shepherd :)


#8

:

[quote="nightrider009, post:1, topic:302924"]
Hi, I am looking for refutations that say that the Catholic Church is the True Church and the Orthodox churches are not. In particular, I am looking for Biblical refutations. I know many will refer me to the verse about Peter and the rock, which indeed, is quite sensible. But I would like more, especially Old Testament sources. Also, I am not really looking for a discussion about complex theological concepts, such as "fililoque."

Please give me links, titles of books, names of scholars, explanations--whatever you have. I am very seriously considering converting, but I still have some doubts.

[/quote]

:popcorn:


#9

[quote="nightrider009, post:1, topic:302924"]
Hi, I am looking for refutations that say that the Catholic Church is the True Church and the Orthodox churches are not. In particular, I am looking for Biblical refutations. I know many will refer me to the verse about Peter and the rock, which indeed, is quite sensible. But I would like more, especially Old Testament sources. Also, I am not really looking for a discussion about complex theological concepts, such as "fililoque."

Please give me links, titles of books, names of scholars, explanations--whatever you have. I am very seriously considering converting, but I still have some doubts.

[/quote]

Good luck with that.

I suggest the Traditionalist Subforum.


#10

[quote="R_C, post:7, topic:302924"]
We cannot say that one is the "true" church, for the Church is the community of all baptized Christians.

The Orthodox Church is *almost *in full communion with the Catholic Church. Learn more about the "East-West schism" or "Great Schism" of 1054. In short, it was a sad fight between brothers that ended with a mutual excommunication, revoked only by both sides on 1965.

According to the Catechism:

What you must take into consideration, however, is this fundamental teaching:

You can learn more here and elsewhere.

Overall, though, I think that the major point is that it was Christ's direct prayer to the Father that we would become "one flock with one shepherd", and this became clear with the primacy of Peter between the Apostles, acknowledged even by St. Paul. It will only be a matter of time before there is full reconciliation between the Catholic and the Orthodox Church under one shepherd :)

[/quote]

The anathemas between Constantinople and Rome were revoked in 1965. Not the excommunications, either between Constantinople and Rome, or the other Churches and Rome.


#11

This is kinda sorta on topic so i’ll ask… why does your profile say “Papist Orthodox”? Are you an Eastern rite Catholic? Just curious:p


#12

They don’t like “Orthodox in communion with Rome”, so I thought of something better :wink:


#13

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


#14

OP: The Eastern Catholic subforum is probably among the most sympathetic (relatively) to Orthodoxy on this entire site. You'd have better luck asking for this material in the Traditional forum, as Nine_Two suggested, or perhaps the Non-Catholic Religions forum (as I've noticed this is where questions about particular Orthodox churches are often placed, so there are probably a lot of people who post there who have certain viewpoints concerning them and, I'm assuming, ample apologetic material from which to form those viewpoints).


#15

[quote="nightrider009, post:1, topic:302924"]
Hi, I am looking for refutations that say that the Catholic Church is the True Church and the Orthodox churches are not. In particular, I am looking for Biblical refutations. I know many will refer me to the verse about Peter and the rock, which indeed, is quite sensible. But I would like more, especially Old Testament sources. Also, I am not really looking for a discussion about complex theological concepts, such as "fililoque."

Please give me links, titles of books, names of scholars, explanations--whatever you have. I am very seriously considering converting, but I still have some doubts.

[/quote]

:popcorn::popcorn::bounce:


#16

Don’t look at me, I’m not sympathetic to the Orthodox :wink:


#17

[quote="ConstantineTG, post:16, topic:302924"]
Don't look at me, I'm not sympathetic to the Orthodox ;)

[/quote]

hahahahaha, how come you know he is looking at you?? Besides until now i didnt know you were "orthodox in communion with rome", you stood more like "orthodox, i hate rome". Maybe i have to look thru your posts.


#18

[quote="nightrider009, post:1, topic:302924"]
Hi, I am looking for refutations that say that the Catholic Church is the True Church and the Orthodox churches are not. In particular, I am looking for Biblical refutations. I know many will refer me to the verse about Peter and the rock, which indeed, is quite sensible. But I would like more, especially Old Testament sources. Also, I am not really looking for a discussion about complex theological concepts, such as "fililoque."

Please give me links, titles of books, names of scholars, explanations--whatever you have. I am very seriously considering converting, but I still have some doubts.

[/quote]

i think it would be futile to try and refute all the orthodox claims and misunderstanding as regard the catholic church. So much can and worms to be opened. It would be better to refute topic by topic, if not the arguements that this thread will generate will be too much for anyone to follow.


#19

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/closed-1.gif


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