Refute: Lucifer worked for God

I was looking on here for what Kabbalah is(reading Night in school), and came across the view that Lucifer worked for God in the Garden of Eden. Please refute this. If this is mainstream Jewish belief, I’m not here to offend anyone, but my faith is hanging on by a super thin thread. Please don’t debate this, my faith will plummet into atheism if so. Just please refute the idea!!!

I would humbly suggest that you seem to be delving into the supposed esoteric places on the internet for your faith. Worry not about Satan, but about the Christ that saves and suports you.
You would do well to pray rather than to find your faith in non-christian sources. I say this realizing that you are so unsure you grasp at every shadow of a promise of truth. Read the New Testament and see His works; feel His Love and hope in His victory.
Turn your reading from the dark corners and find a window in a brief look at the lives of the Saints ever working out their hard race.
Pray and when you are sick of praying, start again.

The devil was not working for God because following Satan and eating from the tree was an act of disobedience to God and went against His will. It is the will of God that all men should be saved, so it would not make sense that He would will for all of man to be condemned in Adam.

I agree with Petaro’s insights and advice. Perhaps you should speak to a priest if you are struggling with your faith as much as you seem to be.

I don’t want to upset your faith - from a Jewish perspective, the best thing for a Christian is to be the best Christian he or she can be - but it is certainly true that the Jewish view of Satan and the Christian view of Satan are quite different. Christianity isn’t Judaism plus Jesus and Judaism isn’t Christianity minus Jesus, they’re very different religions.

Satan isn’t some kind of anti-God ruler of Hell (we don’t share the idea of eternal damnation and stuff like that) but rather a challenger, a tempter from the path of righteousness (perhaps a personification of one’s own selfishness) and incapable of anything without God’s permission. Satan (like all angels/messengers) has no free will, we are responsible for our own choices - just like Adam and Eve.

Jesus is real and one thing that seems to be almost universally true – esoteric and occult teachings no matter how well developed in the end lead to a denial of Christ. I know it could sound just like religious babble but there really is a demonic conspiracy to lead people away from Christ. Don’t listen to that kind of information, you can catch some real darkness that way.

Jesus really is who the New Testament says he is. Jesus said the Devil is a liar and the father of lies when he speaks a lie he speaks from his own nature… If Jewish theology says that the devil worked for God just know that they don’t mean the devil that Jesus understood but the devil that they misunderstand. Jesus has complete knowledge and Jewish theology incomplete.

Occult teachings pack a wallop of fear and adrenalin but there is no substance to it. Turn to Christ and let him heal you. Draw closer to Christ so that this kind of information does not shake you. Deeper relationship with Christ leads to security and peace. Occult leads to excitement, fear and addiction.

Choose Christ---- resist the Devil and he will flee from you. There is more theologically that can help but this is a good start.

Prayers said for you.

Just to let you know, the Kabbalah is a very fringe version of Judaism that arose in Medieval times. It definitely does not reflect traditional Jewish ideas.

Night is a work of fiction. Not every idea you come across is based on any truths or logic. In some way, satan does work for God, he’s the stick to God’s carrot.

I haven’t read Night, but the kids at my school are, might borrow a copy and check it out over spring break, when I’m not grading physics papers.

How would you refute the idea that Jesus used Kabbalah?

Based off some of your posts you seem to be on a quest to destroy your own faith. I hate to sound like this, but relax and stop thinking so much. Its called FAITH for a reason. Crack a beer, make a bowel of lentil soup and stop over analyzing and delving into the downright New Age spectrum of spirituality.

Wake up, make your coffee, go to Church, eat your food, work hard, live out the duties of your state in life, and die…just like the rest of us will someday.

OR go ahead and act on those desires of yours and see where it takes you :shrug: Thats the cold harsh reality and as an adult each and everyone of us will live out the consequences.

:thumbsup:

I really think that if Satan was working for God in the Garden of Eden, God’s response to the serpent would have been quite different.

"So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”

There is no record that God said to the serpent: “Thanks! You did a good job here. I’ll let you know when I need you again.” Instead, God spoke of a future when he would send Mary and Jesus who would crush Satan’s head. Not a good reward for someone who’s supposed to be working for you.

Three things I would say about that.

1- Kabbala is a 16nth century invention.

2- This is the most important one. The New Testament is what Jesus left for us to become like him. We don’t become God-- but we become one with God by participation in Gods power. The way Jesus taught to get to the very high spiritual places was by way of relationship with a loving God and by way of relationship with Jesus himself. It is simple and natural.

Read the Catholic saints. There is no supernatural ability, no state of consciousness, no degree of union found anywhere in the world or in the Kabbalah specifically that is not attained by the christian saints by way of simple relationship and faith. You don’t need special mystical practices to get where God wants you to be. What Jesus left us is sufficient for gaining a deep and profound relationship with God. Special mystical practices don’t add anything you wouldn’t get allready-- in fact they change what you would have gotten innocently from God, and not in a good way.

3- The burden of proof that Jesus practiced Kabbalah is on those claiming it. Try to listen very carefully to what is claimed, what is said, and what is not said. I have found unfortunately that the people that claim these kinds of things are often downright dishonest and are intentionally misstating facts and quoting false sources. If they are not intentionally dishonest they are usually quoting materials they have read that were.

Although not related the Ancient aliens series from the History Channel is a great example. They make some pretty intense claims about humanity and Jesus and they qoute lots of sources but if you Youtube Ancient Aliens Debunked you will find that there are more cases of actual lying involved in that series than there are of possible misunderstandings of the facts they present. It is just a lie plain and simple and can easily be demonstrated to be so.

Your sig says you are young so it might be new to you but there are people out there that are actually lying on purpose to make money, to become famous, and maybe even sometimes to purposefully confuse and lead astray Christians.

Kabbalah is a mystical interpretation of the Torah and the Zohar. In order to teach the Kabbalah, a mystic must first interpret meanings.

Does anyone really think that God relied upon someone else’s mystical interpretations?

In the end, All that Satan has done and tried to do, and will do in the future, is all part of Gods plan, he is essentially doing his part. Notice how many biblical stories that involve some action of Satan results in people turning to God or trusting God more, or learning some type of important lesson.

Satan cannot do anything unless God allows him to, Satan recognizes this, this also means its highly likely Satan knew for a fact, he had NO chance of ‘taking over’, claiming Gods throne.

A good example…No matter if I was the most prideful person on the planet, I recognize I would not stand a chance of taking over control of my country and have all the population recognize me as their leader, and Im just a human, not nearly as intelligent as an angel…See what Im saying?

There is MUCH more to the story of the ‘fall’ and Satan than we know, but in order for us to grasp the larger picture, we were given a story we could relate to.

Dear Upgrade,

If your faith is hanging by a thread, speculations on such things is not a good use of your focus. It would benefit you much more to invest in deepening your relationship with God.

If your faith is so fragile that you cannot tolerate any debate on matters of theological speculation, perhaps CAF is not a good use of your time either?

I cannot imagine why such an idea would need any refutation. God created Lucifer (light bearer) as chief among the angelic beings. He began in faithful service to his Creator. Why is this a problem?

I rebuke Satan, and all his works, as a Catholic, which is what we say in Church. I’d like to add, part of my faith system is following what Paul the Apostle said, that he “masquerades as an angel of light, but is not.” Therefore, I see it appropriate to express that when confronted about the idea that “it” ever worked for G-d.

-CatholicSpirit

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