Refuting Baptist Claims 4


#1

So the walls are not well insulated for sound in my house and I overheard a conversation between my dad (southern Baptist) and my oldest brother (who wants to go in that direction). There was a few things my dad told my brother about what he thinks of the Catholic Church that I would like to know how to refute. I’ll make a separate thread for each one.

One final thing I’d like to know how to address is my dad told him that in the end we both believe in the holy trinity and that that is what matters. That is what will save us. How can I address this? How can I show him that it’s not just a belief in God? I’m thinking the obvious James verse about faith alone is a dead faith. How do I make a case for why we need the sacraments.


#2

Simple way to address that believing in the trinity will not save u…

The devil and all the demons know our Trinitarian God…and they remain damned forever.


#3

Remind him that the Baptist don’t believe in Faith Alone. They say they do, but in truth they talk about “progressive sanctification” and “lordship salvation” and “living out your salvation” and “showing your salvation by your works” etc, etc because of verses like these…

John 14:15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

Joh 15:8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. 9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.

1 John 2:4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

See I didn’t even quote James

All of these verses plainly say, “Having been saved, show your love of God by keeping His commandments.” And so the Baptist group formulates a doctrine of progressing-lordship-acting-something-or-other but it really boils down to cooperating with grace.

And so anytime a Baptist says, “I believe in Sola Fide!” and you ask him if God wants us do good things and he says “Yes,” he just given the lie to his own confession. Because anyone that truly believes that God saves by faith alone would not also believe his works mattered at all.


#4

If we do not need the Sacraments, why did Christ give them to us? Didn’t he tells us that unless we eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood we shall not have life in us? Didn’t he tell us unless we were baptized by water and the Holy Spirit, we shall not enter the kingdom of Heaven? Didn’t he command us to confess our sins and didn’t he breath on the Apostles and tell them " whose sins you forgive they are forgiven them and whose your retain, they are retained? And didn’t the Apostles command that we pray over the sick and annoint them with oil so that they should become well and that their sins be forgiven? And didn’t the Apostles appoint other bishops and priests to carry on the work of sanctification and to preach the gospel? Didn’t Christ command that a man and a woman cleve to one another and let no man put assunder?

Yes, it is through the sacraments that we receive the graces by which we merit the gift of salvation.

As for works and faith, we need both. Throughout the New Testament we are warned that both works and faith are necessary. For example, "What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith … of that? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. (James 2:14-17). " But, in the end, we are saved by the mercy and grace of Christ. If you have a good Bible ( I use the Duay-Rhiems, Chandler edition with the Haydock commentary ) you can look up " Faith and Works " in the references at the end. Ask your Dad to show you in the Bible where it says that only faith is necessary for salvation. He can’t because it isn’t there. Ask you Dad to show you in the Bible where it says we don’t need the Sacraments. He can’t because it isn’t there.

Linus2nd


#5

Does he understand the actions of the Trinity, not just the belief of the Trinity eg. The Father sent His Son, Jesus to give us His Holy Spirit that breaks Satan’s grip on us and establishes us in the new life of grace. This New Life of Grace comes to us in the form of Sacraments instituted by Christ. The actions of the Holy Spirit return us to the Father and nothing imperfect will enter Heaven. We are fallible and need to be sustained in grace, so there is need for the Sacraments, a visible sign to give grace, and signify the grace it gives Jesus came to destroy the works of Satan by the works of the Holy Spirit


#6

In James, demons believe there is one God and shake in fear.

I Cor 15:3-5 defines the gospel.

simply show that what you are trying to defend relates to the gospel.


#7

Ask your dad to show you an example from Scripture where Jesus tells us our judgment is based upon our belief. In virtually EVERY instance, Jesus says that our judgment wil be decided based upon how we obeyed His commands, and our deed/works.


#8

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