Regarding Medjugorje - please read, Vatican facts


#1

Dear Writers and Readers,
Please kindly read this, just takes a few minutes

reuters .com /article/us-pope-medjugorje-idUSKCN18A0E8

"Pope says doubts Medjugorje apparitions are authentic…"

cruxnow .com /global-church/2018/05/31/for-second-time-pope-sends-special-envoy-to-medjugorje/

"For second time, Pope sends special envoy to Medjugorje…"

I would like to talk about the infallibility of the Pope. I have a few articles you might find interesting, please remove spaces for urls:

telegraph .co.uk /news/worldnews/the-pope/10056994/Pope-Francis-elected-after-supernatural-signs-in-the-Conclave-says-Cardinal.html

"Pope Francis elected after supernatural ‘signs’ in the Conclave, says Cardinal."

aleteia .org /2016/10/07/lightning-strikes-dome-of-peters-basilica-on-feast-of-our-lady-of-the-rosary/

Lightning strikes dome of St. Peter’s Basilica on Feast of Our Lady of the Rosary

catholicherald .co.uk /news/2015/03/21/blood-of-st-januarius-liquifies-during-franciss-visit-to-naples/

Blood of St Januarius liquefies during Francis’s visit to Naples

shrineofstjude .org /site/PageServer?pagename=ssj_living_hope_anthony_claret

"…when Pope Pius IX issued his convocation for the First Vatican Council, Claret was invited to participate both in the preparatory meetings and in the sessions of the Council. On May 31, 1870, Claret delivered a short, moving testimony in favor of defining the doctrine:

“I carry marks on my body of the wounds of our Lord Jesus Christ, and would that I might in defense of the infallibility of the pope make the complete sacrifice of my life.” Claret’s words awed the assembly and were considered influential in the Council’s defining papal infallibility two months later.

Cardinal James Gibbons of Baltimore came to know Claret at the Council and said of him, “There goes a true saint.” Pope Pius IX was of the same opinion, stating “Claret is a man of God. He is a saint…”

(Also in all mass that is said around the world, we also pray for the pope and for the local archbishop(s)…)

Yours faithfully,

PAX


#2

What exactly is your point with these links?


#3

Quoted from the first link:

“These presumed apparitions don’t have a lot of value. This I say as a personal opinion,” he told reporters on his plane returning on Saturday night from Portugal where he gave the Catholic Church two new child saints.

“The (commission) report has its doubts. I personally am more nasty. I prefer the Madonna as mother, our mother, and not a Madonna who is the head of a telegraph office, who every day sends a message at such-and-such an hour. This is not the Mother of Jesus,” he said.

“Who thinks that the Madonna says, ‘Come tomorrow at this time, and at such time I will deliver a message to that visionary?’” he said.

But Francis acknowledged that some people who go to Medjugorje experience a spiritual renewal and “encounter God, change their lives.”

Pray a lot of Rosaries, - Pope John Paul II has a very good method, recommendation or model if one searches for it. And also go to mass and confession very often.


#4

Unnaproved private revelations aren’t allowed on the forum.


#5

cruxnow .com /church-in-europe/2018/09/20/popes-delegate-outlines-plans-for-expansion-at-medjugorje-shrine/

"The report of a papal commission set up in 2010 to study the alleged apparitions has not been made public, but some of its points were revealed after Francis spoke about the commission’s work.

The pontiff acknowledged that pilgrims to the Marian site deserve spiritual care and support, but he also expressed doubts about claims of the continuing apparitions of Mary in Medjugorje."

PAX,
Pray a lot…


#6

Someone else made a thread of that.


#7

The Pope and the Church may not believe the apparitions but they are wondering where all these converts are coming from…


#8

Medjugorje and an increase in converts is correlation, not causation. Especially if it’s false.


#9

I don’t disagree with you.


#10

Yes, they would like to help that is why the expansion of the delegates:

cruxnow .com /church-in-europe/2018/09/20/popes-delegate-outlines-plans-for-expansion-at-medjugorje-shrine/

“The Polish archbishop tasked with overseeing Bosnia-Herzegovina’s Medjugorje shrine has outlined plans for expansion, including more Masses in different languages and facilities for young pilgrims who flock to the site of the alleged Marian apparitions.”

…Diocesan commissions studied the alleged apparitions in 1982-1984 and again in 1984-1986, and the then-Yugoslavian bishops’ conference studied them from 1987 to 1990. All three commissions concluded that they could not affirm that a supernatural event was occurring in the town.


#11

Is there a point to this thread? Most of us are well aware Medjugorje is not approved, and discussion of unapproved apparitions is not permitted under the terms of service of this forum.

Therefore I’m flagging this thread as being in violation of the TOS.

There was already a Medjugorje thread yesterday that was closed. When a thread is closed quickly by the mods, you’re not supposed to go start another one on same topic.


#12

Millions of pilgrims from all over the world go to Medjugorje - so some do not know- , please kindly leave it here (even after closing) so if someone searches the internet can find out or read about it.

I am also newly registered, I could not be aware of that, my deepest apologies.

Thank you so much,
PAX


#13

Indeed. That’s why that ‘fruits’ we talk about when considering apparitions are the fruits of the Holy Ghost and not things such as conversions, vocations, Marian devotion etc. All those things can be found in schismatic sects as well as the Catholic Church.


#14

Yes , I did yesterday based on a Vatican News item , but it was closed . :rofl:

It was this one .


#15

I know an older lady - going there - tomorrow.
She told me this after Saturday mass.
She’s around 85 - so I was honestly impressed.
She said she would say a prayer for me - over there :slightly_smiling_face:


#16

As a Catholic Christian you are ought to help her in some ways as well, even if she is aged.
I would say a Rosary for everyone if I had the time.

" 36“Teacher,* which commandment in the law is the greatest?” 37j He said to him,* “You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the greatest and the first commandment. 39k The second is like it:* You shall love your neighbor as yourself. "


#17

#18

#19

What happened?


#20

The mods closed the thread, then opened it again, so we could keep it going.

The question of Medjugorje is more complicated than most supporters and detractors understand. Actually, the tension between the diocese and the Franciscans who control (or controlled) the St. James parish at Medjugorje, have a long history. this is the most informative link that I could find, that deals with it in depth:

http://www.unamsanctamcatholicam.com/history/79-history/260-understanding-the-herzegovina-question.html

So, this has been going on for centuries. The so-called seers and their families are loyal to the Franciscans, who, it seems did not want to hand the parish over to the diocese. Two bishops in a row have said that there is nothing supernatural going on, and no pope has ever reversed this decision.

Some things to consider:

The first ‘seer’ to have the vision had, recently and rather suddenly, lost her mother.
Although she was accompanied by a friend, the friend didn’t look up and see the ‘Gospa’ for about an hour

There were other young people who joined them and joined the vision, two of whom never saw the ‘Gospa’ again.

There are many differences between what they saw, and what has been reported by other, approved visionaries. For a while, most sites, pro and con, said that the visionaries were not related to each other, but now Mirjana, the second to see the vision, and the most prominent visionary these days, (having public visions monthly) has stated in her official autobiography that Jakov, the youngest , who stopped having daily visions in 1998, is her cousin. An anti-Medj blogger Marco Corvaglia(sp?) has said that they are all related in some way.

In the first year, they reported that the ‘Gospa’ was speaking out against the Franciscans in the diocese…one of whom had an affair with a nun, impregnated her, and left the clergy with her to raise a family…

My own thoughts?
It doesn’t look like the contents of the latest reports are going to be released soon. When the visions began, Medj and the surrounding villages were a small farming community. Now, many people have added to, or replaced their incomes by turning their homes into bed-and-breakfasts, or even hotels. Many have opened book stalls and gift shops. Could the Vatican be afraid or tanking the local economy? Trinkets, tours, and chances to be present when a ‘vision’ occurs are drawing people to the site.

I know…I’m rambling, but it does seem that it’s not as simple as it looks. The CDF and the Vatican have never contradicted a local ordinary concerning any apparition. However, most seem to think something spiritually significant is going on there. But was it always so? Can faith and the sacraments do this alone. They can, but would it be allowed, in a place where the bishop has been attacked, and not only with words?

I doubt there will be a final decisions while the visions continue.

My gut feeling is that it is a gesture of consolation that God allowed to occur, but also allowed to spiral out of control. I would never go there, myself.


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