Relatives 'wimpy' on moral/Church issues


#1

Just want to hear how others handle relatives who either are ‘over the edge’ and ensnared by ‘liberalism’, or else are too timid to defend Church/moral teachings, though they are not as extreme.
I have one sibling who has clearly gone off the deep end and embraces socialism, artificial birth control, population control, abortion, Michael Moore/Al Gore type of viewpoints, radical social-activist nuns, the global warming hoax, etc. Hey- no questions asked; he just embraces all that is wrong, and refuses to hear the other side-buries his head in the sand. Plugs his ears and does not want to hear any other view than that which he is brain-washed by. I’ve pretty much written him off, except for a Mass card at Christmas. It’s evil he wants, so he’s on his own.
I have other siblings who privately share that they know all this is wrong, yet they can’t even find the courage to tell their own young adult children living in sin, etc. is wrong. Seems like moral cowardice to me, and I find it frustrating.
What do you do about such relatives? I don’t visit with them often. I daily offer a Rosary that the Holy Spirit enlighten them and give them more courage to speak up against this evil. I also try to have Masses said for them. I gently encourage them to get involved and fight these immoral issues. Yet, in the end they wimp out and take the side of my far-left sibling because it’s all about ‘family.’ Frankly I feel like I’ve lost all my siblings. I know I’m not alone in this, in reading other posts. So–is there anything else you can suggest besides ‘putting on spiritual armor’ when dealing with such relatives? I know only God can touch their hearts, but I’m honestly starting to feel like an orphan!
And has anyone else noticed–satan is using such wimpiness to destroy our families/world. Wish they would wake up!!


#2

Yes, I share your frustration. We have similar issues in my immediate family and extended family.

My husband and I were quite often seen as the “fanatics” because we were faithful to church teachings. (Although we weren’t always so faithful, we have studied, prayed and grown in our faith)

There is hope. Over time, other family members have also grown, changed some of their views and lifestyles.

For example, I have one sister who married in the Catholic church, divorced, lived with her new husband, married her current husband in a civil ceremony. Over the years, she started going to church regularly, she has raised her children devoutly, sends them to a Catholic school, and has recently been challenged with a euthanasia issue at her workplace. We have tried to be witnesses to them and tried to capitalize on opportunities to evangelize. My husband asked her’s to go on retreat (which he did) and to other Catholic Men’s meetings. Just the other day she spoke with me about getting her first marriage annulled! Quite often, it takes time.

My only advice is this:

Keep faithful and persevere. Pray. Use evangelization moments with love. Keep yourself informed (that’s one of the reasons I joined CAF!)

Although others may share stories of epiphanies, it has been my personal experience in my own faith life and others that it is a journey over time.

Eventually they will see your life as filled with joy and will desire the same joy.


#3

Socialism - I personally see nothing wrong with left wingism. I don’t see how it has anything to do with church morals.

ABC, population control, abortion, anything not pro-life - morally wrong

Michael Moore/Al Gore - there is nothing immoral about liking some of their viewpoints. Standing up for the small person, protecting the environment… being against capitalism… there is nothing morally wrong with this?

Social-activist nuns - they probably aren’t official nuns of the Catholic church anymore if their views are contrary to their order, but social activism to me is not immoral. Mother Theresa was one of the best social activists in recent memory.

Global warming hoax - To subscribe to this it not immoral. In fact, to destroy the environment without any regard for future generations is a sin, is it not? It’s a matter of your personal opinion that global warming is a hoax. This has nothing to do with church morality.


#4

I agree with Sina.


#5

Global warming and cooling has been happening for billions of years. Sorry to break it to you :wink:


#6

Thanks and bless all who replied! A few clarifications on my part: With due respect to Sina and Sanctamaria 17, a couple comments. How can a person be prolife, faithfully Catholic, etc. and still not think the Left is wrong? The current leftists are all about socialism, which has NO respect for the Church, prolife, etc. It’s all about the govt. controlling your life and rights. And Gore, Michael Moore, etc. are part of that belief system, which is why they are so dangerous. Leaflet Missal Co. of St. Paul, MN has a book called “Can A Catholic Be a Democrat?” I recommend it. Mother Teresa was a type of ‘activist’ nun; however she remained faithful to Church teaching. the Leftist activist nuns today often support abortion, birth control, socialist govts, etc. Big difference! We must respect the earth, true, but not put it above humanity. And that is precisely the agenda of many politicians re. “global warming.” Junkscience.com has excellent resources which question the so-called ‘consensus.’ I also recommend the book “Look What Happened While You Were Sleeping” which lists the names/states of the over 17,000 scientists who DISAGREE with the G.W. agenda. The real question is why are they silenced? I live in MN and listen to Jason Lewis who sometimes fills in for Rush Limbaugh. He constantly has scientists on the program who are being silenced because they disagree with the ‘green’ G.W. agenda. Something much more is going on. G.W. is an agenda. It just came out that Gore used a computer-generated photo on his movie. Why isn’t the media reporting this? Why won’t Gore openly debate this issue? Why aren’t we hearing both sides of this issue? Because it’s a scheme to raise taxes and control our lives. Read writings by Richard Lindzen. Very revealing.


#7

I honestly think you are over generalizing a lot of things… I just think your rant is more about politics than Catholicism. It’s fine to have conservative view points, but I don’t think it relates to being Catholic or not with regards to those topics I made comments on.

There are a few other similar threads floating around.

I don’t think supporting the Republicans is necessarily more of a Catholic thing to do than supporting the Greens or the Democrats. Republicans generally agree with the dealth penalty and they don’t seem to think too much about sending US troops to Iraq. This doesn’t seem all that pro-life to me either.

But I hear you on your point that it is hard to deal with “Catholic” friends and family who openly support abortion and premarital sex and other immoral issues. :slight_smile: It’s kind of suprising isn’t it?


#8

Hi Sina: Nope, I don’t think I’m overgeneralizing. Re. Democrats: check out the book I mentioned. True, some Republicans have gone the wrong way also, but almost the entire Dem Party is leftist, favors socialism, abortion, gay ‘marriage’, etc. Hardly Catholic! I’m not saying all who vote Dem. (but why do they if they’re true Catholics??) are like this, but the ‘top’ Dems are liberal to the extreme. Think what you like about the war, but I’m just thankful Bush had the commonsense to defend us and our families after 911. And he’s been absolutely abused by the Left because of it which is disgusting. I believe, tho, the reason the media and Dems are so hateful of Bush, and have brainwashed many people into the same, is because Bush was extremely popular just after 911. It’s really about character-asassination and sure is not Christian. Bush is not a perfect conservative, but I would have to say the people who are behind the Bush-bashing are really not thinking, and clearly have their own agenda.
I’m just SO tired of hearing the major media outlets spin everything that the Church and conservatives say, so as to put them in a negative light. The media is so dishonest, and just spew pure propaganda. Again-not very Christian/Catholic!


#9

I actually know quite a few Democrats who are prolife, etc. I simply don’t see anything wrong with caring for the environment, believing that more money should be spent on improving the quality of education or health care, or anything like that. And I’ll admit, I don’t like religion and politics mingling together. Yes, politicians have the responsibility of keeping integrity and protecting all people (including the unborn) but I don’t believe the government should be preaching the Gospel. I prefer my religion to remain uncorrupted by politics. Jesus said that His kingdom was not of this world. We’d do well to remember that, Democrat and Republican.

I believe abortion is a grave injustice against our youngest citizens. I also believe it’s an injustice to inadequately provide for education or allow people to suffer or worse, their children to suffer because they can’t afford the care of a doctor. I believe it’s irresponsible to waste our natural resources and not take care of our planet.

If the Church had room for liberals like GK Chesterton and Dorothy Day, it has room for the liberals of today, so long as we submit to her teachings. I don’t endorse communism or anything like that in any way. I just believe that a different system works better. Nothing wrong with that.


#10

Considering it specifically states in Acts 2:44-45 that the Apostles lived in a communist system, I can’t see that viewpoint.

“All who believed were together and had all things in common; they would sell their property and possessions and divide them among all according to each one’s need” (Acts 2:44-45).

That’s what true communism is: ownership of all of the goods by the people, to be used for the benefit of the people, with no individual ownership.

Now, that being said, the reason communism doesn’t work for governments of this world is because someone has to control the distribution of goods. Unless that person or persons is very strong in the ways of God, having that much control will inevitably lead those who control the distribution into serious temptation. Once that temptation is given in to, it leads to favoritism, division, and inevitably dictatorship and oppression.

In other words it’s a great idea in theory, but doesn’t work in a fallen world as a system of government. Though it did work for the Apostles in the Church.


#11

I believe you are very sincere, but just a few thoughts.
Most people care about the environment. The problem is it has come to the point where the created is more important than The Creator! A bird’s life is often worth more than a human baby’s life! And guess where this comes from-liberals. Global warming is a political agenda- please do some serious research. You’ll find out there is MUCH we are not being told.
We want good health care for all, but please do not be misled into believing nationalized (socialized) healthcare is an answer. In every country this has been tried, care has been poor. Healthcare has become rationed. Pretty soon they are letting the elderly/terminally ill/handicapped die. EVERY place this has been tried! Here again, the libs want us to believe the lie it is ‘good’ for us.
Unfortunately if you ‘dig’ you’ll find money spent on medical or healthcare (nationally) does not go where it should. Instead it supports free birth control and abortions, Planned Parenthood, etc. Very little goes to good causes. Ditto for education. Right now here in MN some Minneapolis schools are promoting anti-bullying programs for K-3 grade kids. It “teaches” them that if they were taught homosexuals should not be married, they were taught wrong. They have the kids roleplay what it would be like to live in a gay family! And one principal had the audacity to say he didn’t care that parents and staff objected-the program would go on. Does this sound good to you? Does it sound like something we as Catholics should support? Our tax dollars for ‘education’ at work, indeed.
Bottom line is we are NOT being told the truth about where money really goes for education, healthcare, the environment, etc. Please don’t be deceived.


#12

I know you are extremely frustrated based on your post. I am going to ask you to do something that will be extremely difficult at first. I would like you to try and take your frustration and turn it into sympathy. It is so easy to get frustrated at the sins of others I know.

Your family members have not been blessed with as much of God’s beautiful grace as much as you have! You have a rich spiritual life and are confident in the faith! They do not have that…try to look upon them with sadness and sympathy, not frustration.

They have bought the lie. They have been fooled by Satan the prince of lies that sinful things are not sinful. They have been fooled by Satan that abortion and living in sin are all okay. This is very sad.

I have to say that if it were not for God helping me I would probably be the same as them, perhaps even you might feel the same way if it were not for God helping you and bestowing you with his beautiful grace.

I speak from experience. Family gatherings frustrated me to no end. I got irritated that people did not beleive the obvious and I wanted to “write them off” as you said you do. With God’s help I was able to look at them differently. Now when my sister talks about not beleiving in Jesus and that homosexual unions are the same as a regular marriage, I look at her as a sad little lost child because she is. I pray for her quietly even as she is speaking to me. I try to show her love, love and more love because she is such a lost soul and I am hoping that love (along with prayer) will help bring her back. I am not sure what will bring her back for sure…but I have a pretty good idea that me getting irritated with her for her sins will not do it.

This will be hard but I encourage you to try it. I am not saying that you should not defend our faith, but try to do so with charity and above all feel sorry for these poor lost souls.

Hope this helps a little, I will pray for your family. God bless.


#13

**I wouldn’t mind seeing this thread get back on track and leave the political stuff aside. I have both Catholic and non-Catholic relatives and friends that fall way short in the moral standards department. I don’t know which one is worse:rolleyes:

The Catholics should know better. The non-Catholics are so far from the truth it is heartbreaking. Neither wants to learn or grow spiritually. It is very hard being a faithful Catholic in this society. And now we have a daughter to raise…among family and friends who think we are “fanatics”:frowning:

**


#14

WOW is all I can say.


#15

Socialism is a large-scale violation of the seventh commandment: thou shalt not steal.

Democractic socialism re-writes the seventh commandment: thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.


#16

And just how long do you suppose they continued to live that way?


#17

I just lived in Bolivia for the last 5 years(I’m half Bolivian) which is very Catholic. The new President is a socialist left wing Castro follower who wants to turn Bolivia into a socialist country and get rid of the Catholic church(in a very Catholic country). In general socialism = anti-church.

You’re right about Michael Moore/Al Gore though. Catholic faith has nothing to do with politics. I don’t find that I have to be against certain people and for others depending on who they vote for. I don’t agree about everything Michael Moore says but Bowling for Columbine was a movie that stood for a good cause.

I agree with you 100%.

Nicely said.:slight_smile:


#18

While it’s true it’s great to stand up for the little guy, please take a much closer look at influential people like Moore and Gore. They both support abortion, socialized medicine, contraception, etc. Goodness-as true Catholics, how can we simply dismiss that?? I believe these people and others on the Left are desperate to convince us socialism (and that includes disrespect for the Church, remember!) is a good way of life. We must be careful to not divorce our Catholicism from politics. Liberalism is a sin; in fact TAN books has an old book by that title. Bishop Sheen had a lot to say about communism/socialism as well. Some things re. socialism sound good in theory, but don’t work in reality and end up taking away our rights and freedoms. Be careful.


#19

Monicad: thanks for your wonderful thoughts-great ideas!

I’m disturbed by other postings which seem to defend socialism. We need to realize it’s NOT about fair distribution. If one person works for 40 years at a company and another person doesn’t put any effort into employment, they should not be rewarded the same-that’s common sense. What socialism does is steal from the rich (who have most often earned their money fairly) and give that money to others. Don’t get me wrong-let’s help the poor, but let’s make sure the money is going where it should. There are those who truly deserve, and there are those whom the govt. wants to keep on the welfare roles to create bigger govt. A govt big enough to give you everything you need is big enough to take all you have! Too many well-intentioned people don’t delve far enough into socialism to see its dangers. And the Constitution clearly says govt should be limited-the #1 role of govt should be to protect its citizens. The Heritage Fndn. has free copies of the Constitution available. I recommend everyone read it in its entirety and see how far off track our country has become. Really scary.


#20

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