Renegade Tridentine Catholics?

Here in Tallahassee, I have come across what appears to be a group of renegade Tridentine Catholics. Their website is www.olfatima.com

I have no idea what to make of this group, and was wondering if anyone was familiar with them. They are not SSPX and don’t appear to be SSPV. What is really strange is that they are holding mass here on Saturday afternoons at the local Anglican Catholic church! You would think that a group of pre-Vatican II Catholics would not be using the facilities of what they would usually perceive as “heretics,” even if their church does have an old-fashioned back-against-the-wall altar.

Their website is quite vague as to who they really are and how they got their faculties. Any insights would be welcome.

I know of them, they are a 2 minuted drive from my house. They are actually in a small(ish) town just north of Tampa. As to what exactly they are about… I have no idea.

We have a similar group with a couple of chapels in the Detroit area. I doubt there is any connection but this local group broke away from the SSPX because the SSPX was not quite hard-line enough for them and full of contradictions.

Pray, pray, pray for these people!

It appears that this “church” is (or was) associated with the schismatic and sedevacantist group know as CMRI. They believe the last valid pope was Pius XII. I don’t know what their take is on Pope Benedict although I suspect they would consider him invalid as well since he was one of the periti at the Second Vatican Council. Since this website contains an article pointing out the errors of sedevacantism, they may now be one of a growing number of “independent” Catholic Churches (a notion that is compeletely at odds with the hierarchical structure of the Church).

Deacon Ed

They are not SSPX and don’t appear to be SSPV.

There are any number of traditionalist Catholic chapels in operation in the US and elsewhere, the SSPX is just the best known grouping of them.

Some people read and listen, and just sort of assume that the Latin-only movement, anti-n.o. movement or whatever you want to call it would dry up if only Bsp. Fellay et al would just come to an agreement with the pope.

That’s just not true, the SSPX followers might just be as likely to attend a chapel such as the one you posted as follow Fellay back to Rome. The SSPX would still have to make a case to its followers if they ever came to an agreement.

The whole Latin mass scene is a lot more complex and fractionalized than it appears at first glance.

Division produces division.

Verbum

the last time i talked with him, maybe a year or two, bishop fulham, who is a validly ordained priest and a validly consecrated bishop also was saying mass once or twice a month in tallahassee.
but all, please remember one thing…we all believe the same thing…we are all joined together as catholics. there are many who believe and follow the n.o. even with the many abuses that have been plaguing it.
yes there are those who justify their position by adopting the seda vacantist theory. others who feel totally uncomfortable with the n.o. but never forget,we are god’s children in the same church militant with more or less hard liners on either side. it is only a matter of time before again we shall all be one. be charitable in your thoughts and expressions. have a good year.

I don 't know about that website.
I couldn’t make it past the horrid midi file.

The lefebvreist heretics and their offshoots are liars. They never admit what they are.Here in my area they never admit they are Excommnicated.The only Tridentine Mass a Catholic should attend is one celebrated under the Indult ,by a priest loyal to our Holy Father Benedict XVI.

[quote=JOHNYJ]The lefebvreist heretics and their offshoots are liars. They never admit what they are.Here in my area they never admit they are Excommnicated.The only Tridentine Mass a Catholic should attend is one celebrated under the Indult ,by a priest loyal to our Holy Father Benedict XVI.
[/quote]

Of all the post, this is the most uncharitable to the SSPX I have heard.

What formal heresy do they hold? Before you shout out that they are heretics, you better put out proof and documentation.

BTW- the Excommunication applies to only 6 people. Not the entire SSPX, nowhere in Eclessia Dei, does it say the entire SSPX are excommunicated.

[quote=JOHNYJ]The lefebvreist heretics and their offshoots are liars. They never admit what they are.Here in my area they never admit they are Excommnicated.The only Tridentine Mass a Catholic should attend is one celebrated under the Indult ,by a priest loyal to our Holy Father Benedict XVI.
[/quote]

Please quote one item from the SSPX website that is heresy.

As for the so called “excommunications” they are null and void. Non existant really. Hopefully Pope Benedict will clarify the subject when Bishop Fellay meets the Holy Father at the end of the month.

[quote=EddieArent]Please quote one item from the SSPX website that is heresy.

As for the so called “excommunications” they are null and void. Non existant really. Hopefully Pope Benedict will clarify the subject when Bishop Fellay meets the Holy Father at the end of the month.
[/quote]

They aren’t heretics. They are schismatics. Worse, they are formal schismatics as opposed to material schismatics. The Orthodox and the Protestants are material schismatics generally, born into their serperated communities and thus unable to be “charged with the sin of serperation.” The SSPX know precisely what they are doing. The excommunications have never been lifted, Eddie. You are fully aware of that. The excommunications are still in effect.

[quote=Iohannes]Of all the post, this is the most uncharitable to the SSPX I have heard.

What formal heresy do they hold? Before you shout out that they are heretics, you better put out proof and documentation.

BTW- the Excommunication applies to only 6 people. Not the entire SSPX, nowhere in Eclessia Dei, does it say the entire SSPX are excommunicated.
[/quote]

From Ecclessia Dei:

“Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offence against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the Church’s law.(8)”

If you’re baptized, confirmed, married, communicated, etc., in an SSPX foundation, by an SSPX priest or bishop, is this not formal adherence?

[quote=EddieArent]Please quote one item from the SSPX website that is heresy.

As for the so called “excommunications” they are null and void. Non existant really. Hopefully Pope Benedict will clarify the subject when Bishop Fellay meets the Holy Father at the end of the month.
[/quote]

From the SSPX website, on the Novus Ordo Mass:

“Therefore, these Masses can be of doubtful validity, and more so with time.”

To question the validity of the normative Mass of the Church, as promulgated by the Vicar of Christ on Earth, comes pretty near heresy, even though they admit a little earlier that the Mass of Paul VI is not invalid *per se. *

Also, their listing of the reception of both Sacred Species by the laity as being a protestant and thus heterodox innovation is either naivete, extremely bad scholarship, or an outright lie. It’s one of the three. Communion under both species was the practice of the Church until about 1414. Thus, this WAS practiced by the Catholic Church for longer than it WASN’T practiced. Kind of like Protestantism, the practice of NOT receiving from the Chalice has only been around about 500-600 years.

[quote=Deacon Ed]. I don’t know what their take is on Pope Benedict although I suspect they would consider him invalid as well
Deacon Ed
[/quote]

Most of the sedevacantist groups consider Pope Benedict to be invalid as well.

They generally hold that the Post VII Ordination Rite is invalid for lack of form.

They would recognize HH’s prebyterial ordination (as it was done under the old Rite), but his episcopal ordination was under new Rite.

He is therefore Fr. Ratzinger. And a person only assumes the Authority of the Holy See when they are ordained to the episcopate (one can’t be the Bishop of Rome if one is not a Bishop)

The seat is therefore still vacant.

The rule of thumb is this … if a parish is not in direct and full communion with the local Ordinary (bishop) then it should not be attended. Of course there are exceptions to this for grave necessity but such grave necessity does not usually exist in the US. If a person cannot find another Tridentine Mass other than a schismatic group and they only like to go to the Tridentine Mass then they just have to deal with it and go to a Novus Ordo untill they can get to a liturgy that is both valid and licit.

[quote=mosher]… and they only like to go to the Tridentine Mass then they just have to deal with it and go to a Novus Ordo untill they can get to a liturgy that is both valid and licit.
[/quote]

Note quite true, they can always attend a Byzantine Divine Liturgy :wink:

Be that as it may…If I was down around Spring Hill visiting the family in Hernando County, I would go to St. Frances Cabrini or St. Joan.

The SSPX people are suspended A divinis from all Priestly functions.They are Excommunicated for "Formal adherence to to Schism ". They have not yet been declared heretics,thats right.
They have been issueing marriage annulments which they have no authority to issue.
Un christian ? they do not tell people they ar not in communion with the Pope. they call themselfs Roman Catholic.The lies they commit effect peoples Souls and I am unchristian for calling them heretics?

“Be that as it may…If I was down around Spring Hill visiting the family in Hernando County, I would go to St. Frances Cabrini or St. Joan.”

Sniffle sniffle What about St. Therese? :wink:

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.