What is it, and why are some traditionalists against it?
It is one of several parish renewal and evangelization programs, which has in the meantime been somewhat revamped and reorganized, and is now called Renew. It has a website, check it out. Traditionalists are probably against any renewal program that does not involve restoring the Latin Mass and requiring women to wear veils.
From what I have read, it was all about “small groups” and that a lot of lies and misunderstandings about the Faith were being spread and perpetuated.
I could not comment without knowing what you have read. Small groups by themselves are neither good or bad, and in fact in most congregations, CAtholic or not, that have been successful in growing, evangelizing, attracting new members, encouraging current members to become more active in the Church, and helping them grow spiritually have found that small faith sharing groups are the key to success. What goes on in the groups varies according to the structure of the program, the focus of the program, the resource materials used, the training of the small group facilitators, the competence of the person who implement the program and compile the resources, and the participants in the small groups.
Any individual or group who has an agenda to push, whether that agenda is in accord or in opposition to Catholic doctrine and practice, can find a way to do it through small groups, through CCD, through adult ed, through the Catholic schools, or through whatever worthy and orthodox Church activity they decide to use.
Small faith sharing groups are a feature of most renewal and evangelization programs. They are also a feature of orthodox spiritual movement such as Cursillo, Life in the Spirit, and various secular or third orders attached to religious orders. They are also a feature of various activist organizations bent on encouraging lay Catholics to participate in any social or political movement from pro-life, social justice etc.
Small faith sharing groups are not bad, dangerous or worrisome in themselves. Particularly groups intended to help members read, meditate and pray with the scripture, usually the Sunday lectionary readings, are excellent and proven ways to evangelize and to renew parish life. If these groups degenerate to a few people pontificating on their own biblical interpretations, yes that could be dangerous (not to mention boring and stultifying for the other members). That is why good source materials, good facilitators and good training are essential.
I have a book from Renew 2000 which I bought at my parish when I was coming back to the Church.
It is pretty ambiguous and it really is good if you are not too concerned with the truth but just feeling better about the faith.
Once I checked out a website on it it seems like it my heresy instincts were correct on this one. They perk up when I go to places like the Catholic Congress.
Any Catholic who cares about truth should steer clear of these programs.
Here is a linky about it…
Now why do you need to bash the Traditional Catholics puzzleannie?
I am not a Traditional Catholic and I have never been to a Latin Mass, yet I do stand up for truth when I see crummy, or wishy washy teaching.
I am sick of wimpy teaching that masquerades as Catholic truth, why can’t people just produce faithful Catholic material instead of trying to water down truth? Wouldn’t everyone be happier if people just produced faithful Catholic material instead of misrepresenting the Holy Faith?
This is the article: christianorder.com/features/features_2003/features_feb03.html
Thank you for your information!
(1) Ever heard of the Apostolic Letter, Ecclesia Dei (July 2, 1988) ?
(2) Check the link of the post you are replying to. www.fisheaters.com and look up VEILING. (fisheaters.com/theveil.html)
After reading this you may post your opinion on veiling.
Your tone suggests that Traditionalist Catholics are different from Modernists. We should all be Catholic. The Tridentine Mass has existed for 100’s of years and is tried and true. As is obvious if you consider (1) Ecclesia Dei
Respectfully and God+ Bless.
If you were familiar with Renew2000, and your parish is proposing Renew, check out the sources, because the new program is significantly changed, and since I participated in both the old and the new, I think much better.
Fisheaters is a dissenting site so I won’t base any opinion or action on what they have to say.
How is fisheaters dissenting?
Also- I managed to get a hold of one of the old Renew2000 books, does the new one still use blessings that refer to the directions and the elements?
It is not. The links you posted are very good ones including www.fisheaters.com. Do not let others make comments and then not explain their reasoning. As you can see by my previous Post , The Traditional Latin Mass is valid and that is why is is still offered (and growing in number). If the Vatican is allowing the Latin Mass and PUZZLEDANNIE does not like it, which of these two parties should we trust? Notice She has not commented on St. Paul 1 Cor 11: 1-17 in the www.fisheaters.com link. Most who do will say that it, along with many other passages, need not be taken literal. What doe this mean? Anyway I hope you continue to post those links.
May God+ Bless You.
BTW- I created a thread specifically about the “dissenting” nature of FishEaters, so I don’t want to debate it here.
my best advice is to visit the renew website and order samples of new materials, which have been completely revamped by new writers since Renew2000.
All I know about it is all the people I know of who are for it are also for praying to flowers as God and are adamantly against praying during mass because they say the mass is only for community and social time as Christians.:rolleyes: Therefore. I doubt its anything worth getting into, unless I wanted to be a Protestant again, or turn pagan. No Thanks! I’ll stick with God.
The veil link, which I followed, accused Bugini of being a Freemason.
Annie, there may be dissenters on fisheaters just as there are some dissenters here, but to say that fisheaters is a dissenting site is an unfair statement. Read what the owner of fisheaters says in her rules:
Welcome! All adult (18+) traditional Catholics **who accept Benedict XVI as Pope are welcome here **-- whether they worship at so-called “indult” Masses or at Masses offered by the S.S.P.X. or other priestly fraternities. “Traditional” means not just wanting the traditional Mass, but wanting to preserve all the traditional Sacramental rites, and all of the teachings of the Church such that they are understood in a manner consistent with the way they were understood before Vatican II.
I went to the Renew 2000 website. I saw nothing there that I liked. The very opening theme is God the creator…which is right out of the feminist tag line of creator, redeemer, sanctifier…No mention of Father. It is the same old same old bongo drum of earthy Kumbaya fluff. Very watered down and protestant like. What an incredible waste of money for a parish to delve into let alone the nothingness that seems to exude from it. Definately somthing that would put a grown man to sleep.
:rotfl: Sounds like I’d be fast asleep too!
It’s called a front for Call to Action, and it’s referred to as a program for the protestantization of the Catholic Church.
Puzzleannie- [edited by Moderator] Just another instant of Catholics trying to be Non-Catholic- The truth and tradition of the Catholic Church- “The Church” is what matters.
There are so many types of programs, etc. that are offered constantly but mention a Latin Mass and the hierarchy runs! This is another example of the protestantization of the Catholic Church- I should know because I am a convert. These programs are very congregational, evangelical … whatever. I love Holy Tradition, the sacredness of the TLM. Simple and true. It seems Parish leaders love to institute ecumenical, not catechetical programs. Water it down, divide and hide the truth? The laity is out of control with no one watching…
If you search on CAF, you will find the other materials Renew produces, Why Catholic?. I was not thrilled with the materials at first, when it was mandated in our conservative diocese for use, and that parish leadership, such as the faculty of schools and the parish staff, form their own small groups.
I DO think that both Renew and Why Catholic? largely depend on the small group in which the materials are used. If the small group does not do the readings and prayefully consider the materials, it’s going to flop. If one person does all the work and the rest just listen to that person talk, it’s a lecture, not a small discussion group.
I am not fond of OCP songs, and can do without Haugen and Hass. I backed off on “blessing” grown people the way I bless my grandchildren, and I refused to share my “feelings” on certain topics that were supposed to go around the circle. I did make my famous points on restoring the sacraments of initiation to infancy, or at least consider bringing way down the age of Confirmation to around First Communion.
Other than that, I think my colleagues are doing a pretty good job with this. I’ve heard things I never thought my colleagues would consider. It HAS deepened my faith, and it has deepened my respect for my colleagues.
Maybe if one joined the right group, and one prepared oneself by reading the materials, one could make the case for more and better Latin Masses, and some of the disciplines that are we are no longer obligated to practice.